DENIED

[VanessaTony 3,567]

As a person who paid child support for a LARGE number of years for two kids, it would upset me no end to find that my ex-wife had used money that is supposed to be used for our mutual children to pay for supporting my ex-wife's future spouse. Additionally, if I were to find out that my ex-wife had done just that, I would have taken her to court to get custody of the kids myself so that I would be sure the money was going to the kids.

Child support is just that, child support. If you feel that it's okay to use money intended to support your child/children to support your foreign born spouse, then please rethink this stand to gain some clarity. That money is not yours, it's your childrens money. Period.

I think you're misunderstanding. Apparently the OP is trying to use child support payments as proof of income which is fine for this reason - THE CHILDREN ARE PART OF THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE!! The I-864 is to prove that the sponsor is able to provide for ALL members of the household. As the children are part of the household the child support is helping to support the CHILDREN in the household. Therefore the sponsors income (the OP) should reflect ALL sources of income to help support the household SIZE, not the foreign spouse.

I understand this upset you but you're definitely projecting your own feelings on the matter.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[road417king 7]

Maybe you should not make assumptions without having the facts to back them up.

If the kids are living with him & he is supporting them how does that equate with using the Child Support Payments to sponsor his foreign wife?

Actually I'm not making assumptions, the OP included the fact that child support was part of his stated income in his posts along with indicating that the child support order indicated child support would be incoming for 13 more years.

Everything in the posts indicate to me that if the indicated child support were NOT part of the overall income, then the OP would not have sufficient income, in accordance with the guidelines, to support his foreign born spouse that he is trying to move here to the US.

Additionally, every family law lawyer that I've ever talked with has stated clearly that child support is just that, child support, not spousal support.

All of this adds up to me that the right decision was made in the end. That the applicant has to follow the rules where HIS income (not his children's income) is used to justify the ability to support his foreign born spouse for immigration purposes and provide a qualified joint sponsor.

Finally, with regard to you statement about making "many times" the amount of child support you're getting, we're not talking about you.

Thanks!

Mike

Edited June 19, 2010 by road417king

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Our I-864 was processed and approved in the United States. However, Rio has chosen to disregard my payments recieved as child support and denied our visa. I have only been given dead ends as far as rectifying this. NVC referred me to the Inspector Generals Office( OIG ), they in turn referred the case to a dead end office.. The bureau of Consular Affairs, which has no email, website or phone number. Any suggestions? thanks, andy

Okay. From your posts this is what I'm gleamed

- you are the sponsor

- you receive child support for children (members of your household) which you tried to use as income

- your child support is continuing for 13 years, you showed court documents and bank statements to prove the income

- You have been given a denial WITH the opportunity to provide more evidence and have a year to do so

So your choices are:

- get a job that pays better, enough that puts you over the line WITHOUT the child support, or

- get a co-sponsor/joint-sponsor

I agree that child support shouldn't be able to be used to prove income, but only because lots could happen that could reduce the income. For instance if your ex loses their job thus lowering the payments, or if they "pass on", or if they just stop paying. Your children could also start living with your ex and not you, that changes payments/income. There's just too many "what ifs" with this sort of "income". Yes as a sponsor you could lose your job, but that's dependent on YOU, and not someone else so that's the difference I think.

Anyway good luck finding a joint-sponsor.

[road417king 7]

I understand this upset you but you're definitely projecting your own feelings on the matter.

My feelings aside, the money isn't his income, it's his kids money and he has administrative responsibility over it to make sure that money is used to provide for his kids and only his kids.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Actually I'm not making assumptions, the OP included the fact that child support was part of his stated income in his posts along with indicating that the child support order indicated child support would be incoming for 13 more years.

Everything in the posts indicate to me that if the indicated child support were NOT part of the overall income, then the OP would not have sufficient income, in accordance with the guidelines, to support his foreign born spouse that he is trying to move here to the US.

Additionally, every family law lawyer that I've ever talked with has stated clearly that child support is just that, child support, not spousal support.

All of this adds up to me that the right decision was made in the end. That the applicant has to follow the rules where HIS income (not his children's income) is used to justify the ability to support his foreign born spouse for immigration purposes and provide a qualified joint sponsor.

Finally, with regard to you statement about making "many times" the amount of child support you're getting, we're not talking about you.

Once again you're projecting your own feelings on this matter and unfortunately your incorrect assumptions/knowledge.

The money is child SUPPORT. This means SUPPORT of the children in the HOUSEHOLD. Support for paying the childrens food bills, energy bills, school fees, transport fees etc. Much as I'd like to think the children wouldn't use water, food, power, school bills, clothing etc they DO.

Please read my prior response to you where I noted that the I-864 isn't JUST about sponsoring the foreign spouse, it's sponsor for the HOUSEHOLD. The children are part of the household and therefore the child support is being used to show that the OP has enough to sponsor the HOUSEHOLD, given that they are given help with the children.

That said, my prior post noted this child support can fluctuate and isn't consistent enough, I think, to be used as income in this regard.

My feelings aside, the money isn't his income, it's his kids money and he has administrative responsibility over it to make sure that money is used to provide for his kids and only his kids.

Once again it IS income. income to support the HOUSEHOLD of which the children are a part. Yes the money is to support the children, so what do you recommend the OP do? Remove the children from his I-864 and therefore from the household count seeing your opinion is that the money used to SUPPORT them isn't a valid one? That's not an option.

And again, I agree that the OP shouldn't use the income just because it isn't stable income and is dependent on someone else.

[trampus 0]

No. I am not projecting, USCIS and NVC both stated in conversations that child support is income.And May be used. I think you have some bitterness to deal with. I also paid child support for 18 years. So? It is not relevant. It is considered income. Period. Household Income. The total income for our household. Not earmarked for her. You assume. The law states it is income. Again, this goes to the issue of the Consul second guessing the USCIS. Which is against policy. And in my opinion should be punishable

Edited June 20, 2010 by trampus

[trampus 0]

As for the get a better job remark, I have a good job. Insurance, Ohio Public Employee Retirement fund (OPERS). The issue is not child support or income. I am over the guidelines. This is only the reason we were given for denial.

[trampus 0]

Okay. From your posts this is what I'm gleamed

- you are the sponsor

- you receive child support for children (members of your household) which you tried to use as income

- your child support is continuing for 13 years, you showed court documents and bank statements to prove the income

- You have been given a denial WITH the opportunity to provide more evidence and have a year to do so

So your choices are:

- get a job that pays better, enough that puts you over the line WITHOUT the child support, or

- get a co-sponsor/joint-sponsor

I agree that child support shouldn't be able to be used to prove income, but only because lots could happen that could reduce the income. For instance if your ex loses their job thus lowering the payments, or if they "pass on", or if they just stop paying. Your children could also start living with your ex and not you, that changes payments/income. There's just too many "what ifs" with this sort of "income". Yes as a sponsor you could lose your job, but that's dependent on YOU, and not someone else so that's the difference I think.

Anyway good luck finding a joint-sponsor.

I found one (co sponsor), my boss,who makes the same income as me. RSRSRS. But also. The facts are, the children will never be allowed by the courts to live with the other parent. Fact. They could be found criminal if they allowed it. The payments will never change, or go away. Unless said courts were to prove their negligenca and grant her custody. Very unlikely. Fact, this support continues, if she stops paying it will accumulate against her social security. It is absolute guaranteed income. If she dies SSI pays it. You seem very opinionated in you "help"

[road417king 7]

No. I am not projecting, USCIS and NVC both stated in conversations that child support is income.And May be used. I think you have some bitterness to deal with. I also paid child support for 18 years. So? It is not relevant. It is considered income. Period. Household Income. The total income for our household. Not earmarked for her. You assume. The law states it is income. Again, this goes to the issue of the Consul second guessing the USCIS. Which is against policy. And in my opinion should be punishable

They weren't saying you were projecting, they said I was projecting. Regardless, the point is moot and the government, ultimately in this case, has the final say no matter what the rest of us think.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

You seem very opinionated in you "help"

That would be because it WAS an opinion (in fact it says on the home page, in not so many words, that this is an OPINION site, not a legal site). Given your lack of detail in the original post it took TWO pages to get the fact you weren't so much "denied" as you were given a NOID if you didn't get more info in a year.

If you make enough to be over the income poverty line without the child support then do another I-864 sans the child support arrangement. Yes it's income but they're ignoring it. If you make enough money without it then what's the issue? There's got to be something else missing. Are you SURE you meet 125% of the poverty line for your household size including your spouse?

Poverty Guidelines: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-864p.pdf it's 125% of the guidelines, unless you're military.

[trampus 0]

They weren't saying you were projecting, they said I was projecting. Regardless, the point is moot and the government, ultimately in this case, has the final say no matter what the rest of us think.

Yes. Agreed. But USCIS has authority over the embassy staff. I wish they would exercise it more often. This pissing match is expensive and tiresome. So which branch of governement will prevail? And how many lives will be destroyed in the process? To say simply "the governement decides" is idiotic. USCIS decided, NVC decided. Now some pissant ugly x cop too ugly to get laid at carnival has a hard on for people of color and a hand full of power so we suffer. Bullshit. Without the child support i am over their guidelines. I deposited 50k into my accounts last year. and proved it,with bank statements and IRS transcripts. making comments about child support, blah blah blah. the amount is under 4k. So stop making snap judgements. I did not come here to critisice or to be insulted. I could start making assumptions about your intelligence as well.

[trampus 0]

ok. this got sidetracked by silliness. my question was, which department of the U.S. government has any actual power here. One negates the other and they both point fingers. I gave you all of the information they gave me, as they gave it to me. If you are dissed imagine how I feel. USCIS has the ultimate power. But the consulates are exercising this pissant law to be rebellious, or whatever it is these parasites do for pleasure. The denial was called what it was called. But, the comments made to my wife, as well as my ability to meet the income requirements, lead me to believe it is a rascist decision. as i stated, their verbal excuses were that she is too ugly to immigrate. I do not know anyone else with this opinion. I am sure if i dug through the white trash of the world i could find someone to agree with him. Brasil is a very rascist place. An ex police chief would go unnoticed there. In a country where employers are allowed to strip their employees nightly to look for " stolen" goods. I find that my tax dollars are not well spent here. As a public employee I know that If I made theses same comments I would be unemployed tomorrow. What makes this official special> Who's retard blacksheep is this?

[road417king 7]

...making comments about child support, blah blah blah. the amount is under 4k. So stop making snap judgements. I did not come here to critisice or to be insulted. I could start making assumptions about your intelligence as well.

At no point did I criticize or insult you. I made statements based upon what information I'd been given by family law lawyers as it pertains to what you posted and the information that you posted.

Additionally, until your most recent posts, at no point did you indicate that you make more money anually than the requirements without the child support, however that did seem to be your biggest focus in your posts as a possible reason for being denied.

I do tend to read carefully and my reading comprehension skills are above average, so if you feel the need to start attacking my intelligence, by all means, go right ahead, knock yourself out. That said, I'll be sure to stay away from any threads you participate in so as to remove any temptation you may feel to attack me in any manner.

And have a happy Father's day.

Thanks!

Mike

[trampus 0]

I have always maintained that I was above the guidelines. You are aware there is no longer an automated phone system? things have changed. I understand we all have basic comprehension skills. So comprehend this. USCIS, NVC, all accept child support as income. The consulates problem seems to be the same as yours. a matter of opinion and not law.

[tokyo.lovers 6]

i still say hire a lawyer. hahah

Edited June 20, 2010 by tokyo.lovers