Naturalization wobbles

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I have returned :

You have been missed.

[Captain Oates 910]

Alan, I've not read the entire thread, I'll admit. And perhaps my view on this is all too simplistic - but the only view I really have of it is that of my hubby's - and his is quite simple.

He plans to naturalize this year for a few reasons. First, if he and I ever decided to go back to England, and then wanted to come here again - we can do that without any further immigration woes. Plus we'll also stop forking out $ to USCIS every 10 years to renew his green card (likely just a matter of time until those fees go up again!). It's a means to an end.

Second, he has never been overly proud to be British (ok, World Cup time is an exception ). He had grown so tired of it - of becoming a minority in his own country, watching the quality of his life and his parents go downhill, etc and so on. But I also think he is a rarity in that he doesn't see becoming a US citizen as somehow making him 'less British'. I am starting to realize this is a HUGE issue for many, though - which really I don't get. No matter what he does or where he lives, he will be British until the day he dies. Even if he were to renounce his British citizenship - sorry - he was born a Blighter, will always be one. It doesn't somehow 'wash off'.

He also doesn't see becoming a USC as somehow now 'flying the flag' and being this overly patriotic quasi Yank. It just makes things a little more secure for us and our future, which we do plan to live out in this country, and he'd also like the chance to vote as we are going to live here long term. He'll still find some things we do weird and in some sense, won't ever really 'belong'. It's really just a means to an end to him.

As an aside, I also don't understand the 'one bad apple spoiling the lot' mentality. There are idiots and crazies in every part of the world. I really don't think Yanks have the corner market on it. You just see it more because that's where you now happen to live, and we are on this constant 24 hour news cycle. What else are they going to talk about? LOL.

I agree with Elmcity that this is a great post and you put your thumb right on it and describe my position exactly. Mind reader. I am going to do this passport thing for exactly the same reasons as your hubby and not so I can become Rambo and hate who I am told to hate. I will stay English in my basic attitudes, preferring quiet speech, fairness, and no constant references to 'arses' in every sentence. Apparently that makes me a 'snotty Brit' in some circles but so be it. I will cheer England when they are good and say that the Germans are better when they are.

I see the oblique reference to hubby feeling a foreigner in England. I lived within 6 miles of 150,000 Pakistanis and their English born offspring. When Pakistan played England, the streets were thronged with cars with 6 or 7 guys in each trailing huge Pakistani flags. I didn't think about it much and I didn't resent it.

I suppose the question is this - were they supporting the team of their parents just like the Slovak player has gone to play for the Slovaks even though he is a German born USC and is that all it is ? If so then it's ok

If it reveals a resentment of England as a STATE - a hatred for the Country where they were born and where they live, then that's a problem to be solved.If I had been born in the US and I had a green skin and everyone had treated me like muck and hated the cultural values my parents had given to me since the day I was born; and if Greenland (where they have green skin ?) was playing the USA, I think I would probably cheer Greenland.

Should a US woman be allowed to emigrate to Pakistan and walk down the road in a bikini if she belongs to the bikini church ? Should a Pakistani man come to the UK and cut the throat of a sheep in the garden when the school kids are walking past ? Should a Dutch guy be allowed to smoke cannabis in Oklahoma if he belongs to the windmill rasta church ?

If there was an easy answer I think someone would have found it by now and simply saying 'When in Rome', doesn't work when religion is involved. I reckon we can put sport to one side and cheer another country if we want.

But the other stuff ? It's the question of the age.

ps religion apart, Italian Americans are proud of their roots and Polish Americans have their sausage etc etc so remaining essentially English should be acceptable as I am not requiring Americans to change and I couldn't change my English approach anyway..

Edited June 14, 2010 by saywhat

[treehugger 23]

He had grown so tired of it - of becoming a minority in his own country, watching the quality of his life and his parents go downhill, etc and so on.

I read this a few hours ago, and it stuck in my mind. What exactly does that mean? And where are the statistics that back that up? And it seems the message is 'I feel like I'm a minority in my own country, so I'll go and become the minority in someone else's country'

[Ricky+Vanessa 43]

Yes, I too wouldn't mind people of color (I'm as open minded as the next guy) if there were simply less of them. Don't they understand it's their role to be the minority? They've got some nerve, that's for sure!

Funny, that I was going to quote that exact same part of text.

The rest of the post I understand and agree with.......

Edited June 14, 2010 by Ricky+Vanessa

[Captain Oates 910]

You have been missed.

Sloppy shooting

[treehugger 23]

Yes, I too wouldn't mind people of color (I'm as open minded as the next guy) if there were simply less of them. Don't they understand it's their role to be the minority? They've got some nerve, that's for sure!

Phew, so I'm not the only one that thought that was a strange (and incorrect) comment! It's true that the racial make-up of some neighbourhoods, towns and cities is very different from my parents' time, say, but the UK as a whole is still very much white.

[treehugger 23]

Funny, that I was going to quote that exact same part of text.

The rest of the post I understand and agree with.......

Same here.

[Captain Oates 910]

I read this a few hours ago, and it stuck in my mind. What exactly does that mean? And where are the statistics that back that up? And it seems the message is 'I feel like I'm a minority in my own country, so I'll go and become the minority in someone else's country'

Ah but if the new country is closer to you in culture than the majority of the country that you have left, doesn't that make sense and wouldn't one feel LESS of a minority ?

I could move into North Central Milwaukee which is nearly all 100% African American, and feel less weird than in Bradford for instance. For a start, the cinema sound track wouldn't be in Punjabi and the boys and gals would be sat together and stealing a kiss

My town is 40% Mexican American or Latino generally, and I don't feel a minority at all - its more like I am on holiday in Spain - less strange than that actually as all the road signs are in English. The biggest cultural difference is that the Latinos sit in the park with an extended family of 20 people and the other Americans etc sit in couples - big deal

My OH's gf's are black and from milwaukee and a bunch of then came over to Seattle 3 weeks ago and we went over and had a hoot of a time with no cultural no-no's to look out for.

I even let the girls them walk in front of me.

[TracyTN 237]

Statistics for a feeling? Hmm I never thought about that I guess. I suppose it depends some on where one lives and works. He worked out of Hayes and in/around Heathrow. Hayes (I thought) was infamous as being somewhere that most Somalians emigrated to. .

Plus I thought the UKs immigration policy was pretty much wide open. Perhaps that has changed in the last few years and we hadn't heard about it.

I DO recall seeing something in the press over there before he had emigrated stating that certain post codes in London now had British born 'whites' as an official ethnic minority. But to find that now would take some searching.

I'm sure everyone is keen to make my husband racist, and if that's where you want to go, so be it. He had no problem with anyone who lived there, obeyed the laws and wanted to make an honest living for themselves and their families. But I think it was the rest of them who were kind of spoiling it for him.

[TracyTN 237]

Ah but if the new country is closer to you in culture than the majority of the country that you have left, doesn't that make sense and wouldn't one feel LESS of a minority ?

Though I guess what everyone is saying is that we may not have the stats to back up the feeling of being a minority. I can see some logic in that.

*damn I can't type today*

Edited June 14, 2010 by TracyTN

[Gemmie 142]

I DO recall seeing something in the press over there before he had emigrated stating that certain post codes in London now had British born 'whites' as an official ethnic minority. But to find that now would take some searching.

You find that in the US too though, right? Like in Detriot, or in New Orleans, etc? They're just areas that are occupied by more black people, just like we have areas in the UK that are occupied by mostly Asians. The last time I checked though, the UK still had a 96% White majority or something.

[TracyTN 237]

You find that in the US too though, right? Like in Detriot, or in New Orleans, etc? They're just areas that are occupied by more black people, just like we have areas in the UK that are occupied by mostly Asians. The last time I checked though, the UK still had a 96% White majority or something.

Sure - I agree that it's all relative. I suppose I should have stated that in my original post. Likely where we're at, it's a bit more even keeled than where he came from in the UK.

Edited to add I just found this link but it's a tad out of date (stats as of April 2001).

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=273

Maybe I'm not googling the right thing but I can't find anything more current.

Edited June 14, 2010 by TracyTN

[Captain Oates 910]

I'm sure everyone is keen to make my husband racist, and if that's where you want to go, so be it. He had no problem with anyone who lived there, obeyed the laws and wanted to make an honest living for themselves and their families. But I think it was the rest of them who were kind of spoiling it for him.

Don't let anyone make you a racist if you are not. Some people shout racist as soon as culture is mentioned but they are the same ones who shout troll as soon as a controversial subject is addressed

Burying these subjects is what causes all the apartheid - the stupid govts should have figured all this out before they slammed millions of people of contradictory religions and cultures together. The govts didn't - we and the others both pay the price.

Note I say 'contradictory' not different.

It's easy to have catholics living alongside protestants and Buddhists, but when one religion thinks it's ok to cut a girl's bits off and the other community say no to any girl having that done, what can one do ? Cut half her bits off ?

In Saudi Arabia, you commit adultery and you get stoned.

In the USA, you get stoned and then commit adultery

Where is the middle way ? There isn't one.

Edited June 14, 2010 by saywhat

[treehugger 23]

You find that in the US too though, right? Like in Detriot, or in New Orleans, etc? They're just areas that are occupied by more black people, just like we have areas in the UK that are occupied by mostly Asians. The last time I checked though, the UK still had a 96% White majority or something.

This is exactly what I meant, thanks Gemmie. There are parts of London, and yes Hayes is one of them, where there's a very high percentage of immigrants, perhaps even the majority, but that doesn't change the fact that overall the UK is 95% white. I might not chose to live in Hayes, or parts of Bradford, or parts of Birmingham etc, because yes, I would feel like a minority and an outsider in those areas, but I'd simply move to another part of town.

[treehugger 23]

Don't let anyone make you a racist if you are not. Some people shout racist as soon as culture is mentioned but they are the same ones who shout troll as soon as a controversial subject is addressed

I didn't say anyone was racist, just that perhaps the reaction was exaggerated. See my previous post about not living in Hayes etc. And I also object to the reference to being a troll. Just because I do most of my posting in another sub-forum does not make me a troll!