Naturalization wobbles

[Fandango 1,439]

The exact quote was 'one of the only ones' read back - I am sure you have time

...which, said post, you completely misunderstood and I told you as much. In fact, context alone should have told you that, but whatever. I said 'America was one of the only countries where it's ok to bash us for being overly patriotic' or some such.

So basically, you're debating claims which have only ever been mentioned by you.

eta: even if it was meant as you say, which it wasn't...and you can reread to confirm...I asked you to show us ONE post where it said we were the ONLY...not 'one of the only'. There is a difference, heh.

Back up your claim or be shown for talking shite.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Captain Oates 911]

...which, said post, you completely misunderstood and I told you as much. In fact, context alone should have told you that, but whatever. I said 'America was one of the only countries where it's ok to bash us for being overly patriotic' or some such.

So basically, you're debating claims which have only ever been mentioned by you.

Back up your claim or be shown for talking shite.

A nice European finishing school would have corrected your vocabulary I am sure.

Now go vac your trailer if you have no points to make

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't think Americans' attachment to the flag is scary....in fact, I see it that we're one of the only nations where people can make statements like that about. Other countries, it would be considered 'patriotic' or 'staunchly British' (I've met some of those btw)...but with us, it's an easy target to call people 'radicals' 'crazy' etc. I don't think it's quite fair.

That's actually what I said above. How that translates to 'America is the only country with free speech' is beyond me

A nice European finishing school would have corrected your vocabulary I am sure.

Now go vac your trailer if you have no points to make

It really says a lot about you to have to resort to such cheap shots and insults. Talk about a need for finishing school! Irony alert!

Edited June 17, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Captain Oates 911]

It really says a lot about you to have to resort to such cheap shots and insults. Talk about a need for finishing school! Irony alert!

It says volumes about you that you characterize others posts with talk of human excrement.

hypocrisy alert !

Are you ready to make a point about the subject yet or do you just come on here to do abuse ?

Edited June 17, 2010 by saywhat

[Nik+Heather 121]

I'm also in the camp that spouses of American citizens (at least) need not have any more "loyal" feelings towards the US than the desire to be geographically with their other half. In that, I agree that if it is convenient for the non usc spouse to become a citizen, then they should.

A nice European finishing school would have corrected your vocabulary I am sure.

Now go vac your trailer if you have no points to make

Alan, has Julian haxx0red your account??

[Fandango 1,439]

It says volumes about you that you characterize others posts with talk of human excrement.

hypocrisy alert !

Are you ready to make a point about the subject yet or do you just come on here to do abuse ?

Well hrmm, the fact that I've asked you to produce proof of origin of your fantasy argument, and you have yet to do so actually proves that you're talking shite. I'm not calling you trailer trash, I'm saying you talk rubbish, which has now been proven since you still cannot produce a link that I've been asking about for several posts now.

The fact that I used a vulgar word does not equal a personal insult as to where I live or what that may imply about me. It's a cheap shot, one of a flailing, drowning man with an obvious need to deflect the argument because you cannot back up what you say. You have insulted people in this thread who have, imo, bent over backwards to express themselves civilly and cordially to you. You have been asked for apologies, of which you have never given, even though you freely admit you were too harsh AND you've misread posts. You have proven yourself incapable of being adult enough to have a disagreement without resorting to the cheap shots. For that, I pity you.

[Captain Oates 911]

I'm also in the camp that spouses of American citizens (at least) need not have any more "loyal" feelings towards the US than the desire to be geographically with their other half. In that, I agree that if it is convenient for the non usc spouse to become a citizen, then they should.

Alan, has Julian haxx0red your account??

Hey I am holding back - as soon as someone starts calling other posters 'human reproductive parts' or starts talking human excrement, it makes me want to push back. Oh dear I have revealed my weakness - watch her try and exploit it.

Thanks for the first half of your post too - it's reassuring that others have a more rounded and mature and less extreme view of the subject.

and thanks for actually sticking to the subject rather than ....

Well hrmm, the fact that I've asked you to produce proof of origin of your fantasy argument, and you have yet to do so actually proves that you're talking shite. I'm not calling you trailer trash, I'm saying you talk rubbish, which has now been proven since you still cannot produce a link that I've been asking about for several posts now.

The fact that I used a vulgar word does not equal a personal insult as to where I live or what that may imply about me. It's a cheap shot, one of a flailing, drowning man with an obvious need to deflect the argument because you cannot back up what you say. You have insulted people in this thread who have, imo, bent over backwards to express themselves civilly and cordially to you. You have been asked for apologies, of which you have never given, even though you freely admit you were too harsh AND you've misread posts. You have proven yourself incapable of being adult enough to have a disagreement without resorting to the cheap shots. For that, I pity you.

Doesn't wash with me - this is full of what you said...

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

refrain from personal attacks please.

[Gemmie 142]

Yeah Alan, I don't think you can claim that you know the beliefs of the entirety of Europe.

I think we're all guilty of facing situations with stereotypes in mind, and then finding that it fits within the criteria, and the stereotype continues. Since being in the US, people have asked me silly questions about life in the UK, and some of them ARE true (someone asked me if it's true that we have so much teenage pregnancy and binge-drinking). I've even been asked about dentistry in the UK, and yes, our dentistry services are seriously screwed in comparison to the US, hence the stereotype. Obviously that doesn't mean that all Brits are emotionally-distant and toothless. But in general, I can see why other nationals perceive it that way. And like I said, I do think there's an element of truth to most stereotypes, including the one where America has an over-exaggerated sense of self-importance, but I don't believe that can be generalized to all nationals living in that country. H!ll, look at Steven Colbert. He makes a living off playing up this stereotype of conservative extremists, which is how the world views the average American, and people love that because that's not how everyone REALLY is.

There is nothing wrong with loving your country. I love the banter between states in the US and between sports teams, and the national pride that people have here. I don't appreciate the notion that it's the best country in the world, when admittedly most Americans haven't traveled or seen the rest of the world for many reasons. When I DO come across that attitude, I try to correct it by showing that it's not the only country that has those aspects. For example, with the "Only in America" argument about freedom of expression. Or during the health care debate, I didn't appreciate people mocking the systems in the UK and Canada when there are so many flaws in the US system. Whenever people criticize my "socialist" country, I just believe you can't have it both ways... hating high taxes whilst hating late retirement and limited maternity time, etc.

Having said that though, when I discussed the portrayed US nationalism with my husband, he said "you should've seen what you British were like during the Empire. You were Braggart Central"

[Fandango 1,439]

Hey I am holding back - as soon as someone starts calling other posters 'human reproductive parts' or starts talking human excrement, it makes me want to push back. Oh dear I have revealed my weakness - watch her try and exploit it.

Thanks for the first half of your post too - it's reassuring that others have a more rounded and mature and less extreme view of the subject.

and thanks for actually sticking to the subject rather than ....

Doesn't wash with me - this is full of what you said...

Show the post with your phantom argument. Enough feigned insult

I may find your pov quite skewered, and I've lost quite a bit of respect for you throughout this whole thing, but I wouldn't need to exploit any 'weakness' of yours, even if said weakness is that you resort to cheap shots. They exploit you, actually, and do you no favors whatsoever. Temper tantrums on the over 50 crowd don't really do much. Actually, they don't do much for anyone over 3, but I kind of expected more from you. *shrug*

I am actually not insulted by your insult. I am insulted by your attempt, but that's besides the point. I'm actually smiling that my challenge thwarted you so much, you felt the need to create this diversion.

Now, let's unmuddy these waters if you dare, and get back on track! Show us all the post with your phantom argument!

Edited June 17, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Captain Oates 911]

Show the post with your phantom argument. Enough feigned insult

I may find your pov quite skewered, and I've lost quite a bit of respect for you throughout this whole thing, but I wouldn't need to exploit any 'weakness' of yours, even if said weakness is that you resort to cheap shots. They exploit you, actually, and do you no favors whatsoever. Temper tantrums on the over 50 crowd don't really do much. Actually, they don't do much for anyone over 3, but I kind of expected more from you. *shrug*

I am actually not insulted by your insult. I am insulted by your attempt, but that's besides the point. I'm actually smiling that my challenge thwarted you so much, you felt the need to create this diversion.

Now, let's unmuddy these waters if you dare, and get back on track! Show us all the post with your phantom argument!

I am not going to spend my afternoon going back through all those pages just to comply with your demands. You really are like a dog with a bone and you are fixated.

I am telling you for certain sure that the post was made that 'the US is one of the only countries with free speech'. I laughed at the weird English. Do you remember now ?

Now instead of continuing your foaming steaming crusade which is not conducive to a calm debate, why don't you make another point - surely you are not one of those who feeds off the posts of others and never contributes a thought yourself ?

Edited June 17, 2010 by saywhat

[Fandango 1,439]

I am not going to spend my afternoon going back through all those pages just to comply with your demands. You really are like a dog with a bone and you are fixated.

I am telling you for certain sure that the post was made that 'the US is one of the only countries with free speech'. I laughed at the weird English. Do you remember now ?

Now instead of continuing your foaming steaming crusade which is not conducive to a calm debate, why don't you make another point - surely you are not one of those who feeds off the posts of others and never contributes a thought yourself ?

You would be wrong then...the post you clearly misunderstood - and admitted to misunderstanding - along with the text before and after the confusing statement (I admit that on its own it could be misconstrued) is quoted just a few posts up from here. Context is everything, and you either have problems discerning that, or you just read what you wanted to read....well, that much is unclear

I am like a dog with a bone with this...you're right. Because you are fighting phantom arguments, and I have decided to call you out on it. So since you're all about the time-management, perhaps a little research would help save a ton of it, because you could have easily checked 'what you're so certain' about that actually never happened, and saved yourself all this time continuing to respond to me about how little time you have, or saved yourself the time fighting arguments that were never made in the first place. Or saved yourself the time that you've used to deliver cheap shots.

In fact, just to prove your difficulty in comprehension, I'll save you the 'time waster' of scrolling upwards.

I don't think Americans' attachment to the flag is scary....in fact, I see it that we're one of the only nations where people can make statements like that about. Other countries, it would be considered 'patriotic' or 'staunchly British' (I've met some of those btw)...but with us, it's an easy target to call people 'radicals' 'crazy' etc. I don't think it's quite fair.

Let's compare that with what you are so 'certain' of

I am telling you for certain sure that the post was made that 'the US is one of the only countries with free speech'. I laughed at the weird English. Do you remember now ?

Hrmm.

I'll even make it easier.

You went off on a bit of a rant...this is where you started your downward spiral:

One of the only Nations ?

Apart from the screwed up English produced by the American educational system, it's patent nonsense.

To which I replied:

No, you misunderstood me. Meaning we're one of the only ones who get easily picked on for being patriotic. I wasn't trying to be insulting, please try to do the same though.

To which you ACKNOWLEDGED:

ok

cooling down

Now, I've cut yours down for length's sake, but see that little arrow in the corner of each quote? Click on that and it will take you back to the originals.

I didn't do that to be nice, I did this to show you that you are either losing your memory, and have no recollection of this, or are using 'selective memory' to suit your agenda. Either way, it also proves that your argument is full of nonsense, and your request to produce the 'offending statement' that you keep mentioning ACTUALLY NEVER EXISTED.

_______

And another wild accusation of yours - I don't contribute a thought to this thread? This thread is full of my thoughts. What thread are you reading? Are you just being intentionally belligerent or are you actually having a comprehension problem????

Check, mate!

[Captain Oates 911]

You are doing an awful lot of work for nothing.

Why don't you just continue with a new thought about the subject (not me)

and please don't use words like 'shite' when talking about other members posts or they might get tetchy with you and we know you don't like that

Back to the subject time ?

[tmma 467]

I first came across Americans in volume in the early 80's when I became European Finance Director for an American company based in Georgia. It took minutes before I was informed that the way things are done in the US and everything about America is superior to anywhere else in the world.

I have had an unlimited business visa since then and I made hundreds of visits - some of them via Concorde for two day meetings.

I have mixed with people all over Europe and received their opinions on the culture of the US in their eyes. My opinions are not just mine but a mix of others thoughts.

I have met Superb Americans. Clever Americans. Compassionate Americans, highly educated Americans, gentle quiet Americans - and had my life saved by an American in Saudi Arabia - literally.

It's a pity therefore that one aspect of American culture is it's inability to even discuss ONE shortcoming of the USA with an ALIEN, but rather to immediately brand them as the enemy and close ranks.

The Brits are seen worldwide as snotty etc etc and the Americans are regarded worldwide in a certain way as well. To deny this or say it's just me, is simply to hide one's head in the sand.

I know this thread has grown , but I am responding to your response to me.

The type of aircraft you used for overseas travel has absolutly no relevance to anything ( unless of course you think it adds some weight to your point, which I am at a loss to see where it would) futhermore just about everybody not just on this thread but this whole site has traveled somewhat extensively and can be certainly credited with at least a general broad 'world view'.

I don't see where anybody here ( on this thread) has called you 'the enemy'..... has that happened since you have been in the United States? That certainly would be/is disturbing, and would maybe explain why your attitude is as you have shown and why you were the first to use that word to describe yourself ( and others ), when normally that is used mainly by officials in a totally non-personal way -but like I said before- that certainly is not the view of those in the people that I associate with both personally or professionally; although I do realize that stereotypes exist for a reason....the stereotypical Brit chav actually does exist as does Bubba and Zeke here. But you cannot possibly brand us all that way, just like I don't assume that because you are British you are of chavs on the dole.

No one's head is in the sand. Speaking for myself, I do not think it does your extensive resume of travels any justice to say that something is the 'norm' when it is not, or paint everyone with the same brush. Just like I don't see how you became the self-proclaimed spokesperson for the European continent.

Like I said ages ago ( back on topic)...if you do not want to Naturalize....don't. It's your decision, don't be pressured and do what's right for you....but if you start a thread on it I would have thought you would have been expecting comments and opinions, but you seem incredibly unsure either way what to do with your status. good Luck with the 'wobbles' and i hope it steadies out soon for you.

[Fandango 1,439]

You are doing an awful lot of work for nothing.

Why don't you just continue with a new thought about the subject (not me)

and please don't use words like 'shite' when talking about other members posts or they might get tetchy with you and we know you don't like that

Back to the subject time ?

Took me all of 10 minutes. You're embarrassing yourself by avoiding it, yet still replying. Oh, that's right...you are pressed.for.time. therefore cannot check your facts even when they are laid out before you. But you have time to dodge and weave, dodge and weave!

I don't mind tetchy...I try to keep things civil, but I actually love it when someone loses their rag and resorts to cheap shots. Lets me know that I got em You can bang your drum about my usage of the word 'shite' but at the end of the day, I'm sure your 50+ year old ears has heard it once or twice before. Calling someone trailer trash? Unjustified.

So, when are you going to admit you have created a phantom argument?