Naturalization wobbles

[Captain Oates 911]

ok Naturalization time looms and a few weeks ago I was on board and looking fwd to it. I like the Constitution and the high minded ideals.

Now I am having big pre-marriage wobbles

I am fiscally conservative but I believe in 'fairness' and I am 'anti violence' and that brands me as 'socially liberal' though not a socialist. I pick and choose my policies.

I have met some really scary attitudes on line and I really don't want to be at one with these people and I wonder what percentage of the American population are like this and whether I can whole-heartedly join.

Examples:

A That mexican kid should have been killed for throwing stones and praps the others will learn not to mess with us

B We a-bombed the Japanese and that will teach em not to attack the USA (In the UK we say it was an awful, terrible necessity to kill 100,000 civilians and we don't cheer it)

Can any UK ers who have naturalized assure me that these people are a small % of the population ? What do Americans think ? It;s not a party think - it's more about crudity and violence and uncaring attitudes.

Are they really so big in the US ?

Can I ever 'fit in'

Edited June 11, 2010 by saywhat

[Captain Oates 911]

dash the editor won't let me in to correct the spelling mistakes !

ps does anyone regret naturalizing on 'cultural' grounds ?

[Fandango 1,439]

The great thing about America is the right to state your beliefs, so long as they don't incite crimes (yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater and whatnot). You may find others' opinions repulsive, but they might feel the same about yours. No one is 'right' or 'wrong', and the good thing about America is that you can coexist knowing the Constitution affords you that liberty.

If you're going to naturalize while looking down your nose at how 'awful' a certain % of Americans are, then best preserve your Britishness and don't become 'one of us/them'.

eta: I lived in the UK, and am familiar with the violent history of the British Empire. To suggest that most or all Brits are of the 'it was a terrible necessity to bomb the Japanese' notion considering your own history and the opinions *I* heard about from British nationals is disingenuous at best.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I don't think it's a matter of looking down one's nose, but feeling discomfited by what can seem sometimes to be the dominant culture, even if it isn't really. We're a heterogeneous nation for sure, but sometimes some people shout so loud as to make it seem that there really is a majority viewpoint.

Also, I think Alan was saying it was the Americans who thought it was necessary to bomb the Japanese, not the British.

[Captain Oates 911]

The great thing about America is the right to state your beliefs, so long as they don't incite crimes (yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater and whatnot). You may find others' opinions repulsive, but they might feel the same about yours. No one is 'right' or 'wrong', and the good thing about America is that you can coexist knowing the Constitution affords you that liberty.

If you're going to naturalize while looking down your nose at how 'awful' a certain % of Americans are, then best preserve your Britishness and don't become 'one of us/them'.

You see there we have it. There is right and wrong. I say killing a 15 year old boy as an example to his friends not to throw stones is wrong. I accept this may not be what happened at all, yet there are people who think that it's ok even if that's what happened and that's what's making me uncertain about this society

If the majority of Americans say that's just a matter of opinion and they don't give a damn either way what happens so long as people stay off their lawn, then that confirms my doubts.

Not reassured so far...

[KaiserD 12]

I don't think it's a matter of looking down one's nose, but feeling discomfited by what can seem sometimes to be the dominant culture, even if it isn't really. We're a heterogeneous nation for sure, but sometimes some people shout so loud as to make it seem that there really is a majority viewpoint.

Also, I think Alan was saying it was the Americans who thought it was necessary to bomb the Japanese, not the British.

I think that too

I imagine that most people with a more central disposition in politics just keep their heads down and get on with it.

There may be more people who change their political opinion on the winds, depending on what the last thing they heard on tv was (without being actually informed) who shout loudly (especially on the internet). Perhaps these are more comparable with people in the UK who will just flat out tell you "I don't do politics, it's boring" or some such. There seems to be a lot of people who feel so far removed from politicians that they are completely irrelevant, therefore don't vote and so on. I wonder if that's because the tv media is not so left/right/point scoring.

[Captain Oates 911]

I really do feel all woozy at the mo as there is so much news and internet stuff going on and it's just overwhelming

When I try to find out how people really think, whether the US culture really is brutal and coarse and unfair and unfeeling, I get a lot of feedback telling me it is so.

I guess I just need reassurance that it's a minority - and the majority are not in favor of machine gunning illegal immigrants at the border etc

If I went on some websites and asked about that, I guarantee that at least 50% would say they were for it and they would feed the bodies to US pigs to lower pork costs for the US consumer.

Perhaps I should turn my telly and computer off and take walk and say good morning to my neighbors. They all seem charming and polite and well mannered, but is it they who go home and then post their real feelings which are just plain nasty ?

What is this society I am planning to wed ?

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I really do feel all woozy at the mo as there is so much news and internet stuff going on and it's just overwhelming

When I try to find out how people really think, whether the US culture really is brutal and coarse and unfair and unfeeling, I get a lot of feedback telling me it is so.

I guess I just need reassurance that it's a minority - and the majority are not in favor of machine gunning illegal immigrants at the border etc

If I went on some websites and asked about that, I guarantee that at least 50% would say they were for it and they would feed the bodies to US pigs to lower pork costs for the US consumer.

Perhaps I should turn my telly and computer off and take walk and say good morning to my neighbors. They all seem charming and polite and well mannered, but is it they who go home and then post their real feelings which are just plain nasty ?

What is this society I am planning to wed ?

Move to Connecticut. We're not known as the Land of Steady Habits for nothing. We don't do extremism very well, unless it's about pizza or the Sox.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Move to Connecticut. We're not known as the Land of Steady Habits for nothing. We don't do extremism very well, unless it's about pizza or the Sox.

or hating the Yankees

[Fandango 1,439]

You see there we have it. There is right and wrong. I say killing a 15 year old boy as an example to his friends not to throw stones is wrong. I accept this may not be what happened at all, yet there are people who think that it's ok even if that's what happened and that's what's making me uncertain about this society

If the majority of Americans say that's just a matter of opinion and they don't give a damn either way what happens so long as people stay off their lawn, then that confirms my doubts.

Not reassured so far...

I didn't read that whole thread but what I did read in defense of the border patrol was that if he felt his life was in danger, he had no choice.

Which I agree with.

We hear rocks, we don't really know the mitigating circumstances. We don't know if they were pebbles, stones, boulders, etc. There is a difference to being right in opinion vs being right by the law. I think it was a tragedy that the boy was killed, but I also think that the BP agent may have felt his life was in jeopardy, which would change the motivation behind the shooting.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

or hating the Yankees

Same difference. Unless you're in one of those pockets of evil in Fairfield County. Full of outsider wanker bankers anyway. Not like us fine Swamp Yankees.

[KaiserD 12]

Perhaps I should turn my telly and computer off and take walk and say good morning to my neighbors. They all seem charming and polite and well mannered, but is it they who go home and then post their real feelings which are just plain nasty ?

What is this society I am planning to wed ?

I am a total hypocrite but you should go and do that! VJ is an interesting sampling of people to me because you have your left and your right, the crazy and the loyal and then your average people who are mostly central, left in some things and right in others. Most of the people here even if you don't agree with them you can see the reasons why they think like that do which brings some comfort. The variation happens because we are brought here for a different reason than politics itself, then of course there are lots of people who come to VJ who I'm sure read/watch the news but don't touch OT with a 10ft pole.

Especially for American politics what you will see is news places that report the news with a right slant will attract the right slanted comments and left will do the same. The kind of comments you will read on AOL/Yahoo news are totally different to those who comment on the New York Times website.

The internet in general also allows for some ugly opinions that people just would not say in real life. Some of them really do think that way, others just want to cause controversy.

[Nik+Heather 121]

I think that a lot of what you hear people are in a vocal minority. Also, people say things on the internet intended to shock/stir the pot. They are removed from the situation, and probably not thinking about it in human in-person terms. Check out voter turn out to see how much Americans as a whole actually care enough about these things to take 5 minutes to do something about it.

http://www.infopleas...a/A0781453.html

To me, this says that 60%+ don't really care that much - Just look at the off year elections. Senators and Congressmen get elected during those elections too.

There are two reasons that I know of for people who don't vote:

- They really don't care enough to inform themselves about the issues/don't feel it affects their lives

- They feel as though there are no choices palatable to them.

I think you and I are in the second boat, as the choice usually comes down to D and R, and you and I have views which take half of each.(edit: I actually do vote, but agonize over it....)

Edited June 11, 2010 by Nik+Heather

[Captain Oates 911]

I didn't read that whole thread but what I did read in defense of the border patrol was that if he felt his life was in danger, he had no choice.

Which I agree with.

We hear rocks, we don't really know the mitigating circumstances. We don't know if they were pebbles, stones, boulders, etc. There is a difference to being right in opinion vs being right by the law. I think it was a tragedy that the boy was killed, but I also think that the BP agent may have felt his life was in jeopardy, which would change the motivation behind the shooting.

I agree with that and maybe he was scared and fully justified. My point is that even if it was a pebble and the officer didn't feel he was threatened, there are many who say that showing disrespect to a US uniformed official at the border IS reason to kill the boy.

That is the sort of stuff that throws me and I hear that kind of thing every day - mostly but not always online

[Fandango 1,439]

I agree with that and maybe he was scared and fully justified. My point is that even if it was a pebble and the officer didn't feel he was threatened, there are many who say that showing disrespect to a US uniformed official at the border IS reason to kill the boy.

That is the sort of stuff that throws me and I hear that kind of thing every day - mostly but not always online

I think you will find an ample amount of people who would disagree with that. But my point is, if your desire to become a USC is thwarted by the ignorant, then maybe you need to do some sol searching and decided if this is something you really really want in the first place. I'm sure it's a big decision.