"self-employed"

[Nik 0]

Hey all,

My fiance is self-employed as many people in Africa are. He doesn't really have a business as we would think of it. He sells things on the road. Will this mean we won't qualify for the k-1. I know it is supposed to be based on my and my income, but is his employment taken into consideration at any level?

Nik

[William33 110]

Not at all, it is the U.S. citizens income for qualification. He could be unemployed, as far as the USCIS is concerned. Put that thought out of your mind.

Good Luck in your process!

Hey all,

My fiance is self-employed as many people in Africa are. He doesn't really have a business as we would think of it. He sells things on the road. Will this mean we won't qualify for the k-1. I know it is supposed to be based on my and my income, but is his employment taken into consideration at any level?

Nik

[dwar49 0]

That is not entirely correct.

Ask yourself these questions.

Does your income put you over 125% of the poverty level in the US? (okay to forestall the critics, yes i know you dont have to meet that requirement until he adjusts status, but follow along here)

if the answer to that question is yes, then dont worry at all about his income.

If the answer is no, then ask this question.

Will he be able to continue his business when he come to the US and is there anyway to substantiate that?

If the answer is yes, then you could include his income into your papework to meet the requirements.

If the answer is no, then you either have to make it on your own income or convince someone to co-sponsor him so that you do.

[William33 110]

Dr. Dwar,

One would hope that the OP was cognizant of the USC minimum income requirements, but then again?

I responded, on the basis that the OP thought the beneficiary needed to prove some level of income.

To that end, he does not.

Adding to your salient point, the additional income the beneficiary may bring into the picture may push them over the top, if as you suggested, the petitioner may be under the poverty line of income.

This surmises of course, that the beneficiary can actually be gainfully employed here immediatly.

Cheers Dwar!!!

That is not entirely correct.

Ask yourself these questions.

Does your income put you over 125% of the poverty level in the US? (okay to forestall the critics, yes i know you dont have to meet that requirement until he adjusts status, but follow along here)

if the answer to that question is yes, then dont worry at all about his income.

If the answer is no, then ask this question.

Will he be able to continue his business when he come to the US and is there anyway to substantiate that?

If the answer is yes, then you could include his income into your papework to meet the requirements.

If the answer is no, then you either have to make it on your own income or convince someone to co-sponsor him so that you do.

Edited August 9, 2006 by William33

[dwar49 0]

William,

Didnt mean to offend you, you give out some really good info and advice, just wanted to make sure the OP had all the info.

??? Dr Dwar ?????

Okay now you with the "dr" stuff and mew with the dwar-san. I am starting to get a complex here!!!

LOL

[William33 110]

No offense taken mate.

You have shown a propensity for intellectually delivered advice. Thus, the title.

I also appreciate it, because I, like you worked for the Government.

Former Government in my case, 18 years of that was enough. Got the annuity in the works though and the TSP, rolled that baby over to the new job, TSP also. How ironic!!

Regards Doug.

William,

Didnt mean to offend you, you give out some really good info and advice, just wanted to make sure the OP had all the info.

??? Dr Dwar ?????

Okay now you with the "dr" stuff and mew with the dwar-san. I am starting to get a complex here!!!

LOL

[JenT 0]

Can I interject on all the 'warm fuzziness' being exchanged here?

Per the guides:

The foreign fiance's income can NOT be counted on either affidavit (except when the foreign fiance has been

living with the fiance, married, and in the US for six months), however the foreign fiance's assets CAN be used if they are readily convertible into cash. The USCIS is concerned ONLY about the US fiance's income/assets. (Note that in other situations the foreign spouse's income MAY be counted on I-864 affidavit, such as foreigner in U.S. on work or student visa who marries and then files for adjustment of status. IF the foreign spouse has LIVED IN THE HOUSEHOLD of the U.S. spouse for at least 6 months, then his/her income CAN be counted. There are NO situations involving fiance visa in which foreign spouse's income can be counted, as far as I know, when interviewing for the fiance visa or when filing adjustment of status within 6 months of arrival in the US.)

Jen

[dwar49 0]

Lucky you. Still in government employ, but then again already receiving Military retirement and working on my TSP account. Trust me at this point if anything that pays even close comes along I am on my way out the door.

thanks for the compliment!!!!

Oh JenT

Warm fuzzies? Now I always considered you the queen of warm fuzzies, I was just telling my fiancee tonight how you were like a mother hen always ready with encouraging words!!!

And yes you are right in a sense, and I should have explained more also. If I remember correctly if he is self employed with verifible income and assets that can be used in either case.

I think you are correct if employed by someone else. But being self employed with a business, that could possibly still be in operation while he is in states and that he would receive income that would show that they wouldnt need public funds is usable. Now I dont know the exact rules, but I do know that it can be done that way as there was recent case in england that the USC used her fiancee's business assets and income to prove that they wouldnt need public assistance to cover the I-134.

Now I dont know about the AOS, but would think same would apply. Why wouldnt they let you count that?

Edited August 9, 2006 by dwar49

[JenT 0]

Lucky you. Still in government employ, but then again already receiving Military retirement and working on my TSP account. Trust me at this point if anything that pays even close comes along I am on my way out the door.

thanks for the compliment!!!!

Oh JenT

Warm fuzzies? Now I always considered you the queen of warm fuzzies, I was just telling my fiancee tonight how you were like a mother hen always ready with encouraging words!!!

And yes you are right in a sense, and I should have explained more also. If I remember correctly if he is self employed with verifible income and assets that can be used in either case.

I think you are correct if employed by someone else. But being self employed with a business, that could possibly still be in operation while he is in states and that he would receive income that would show that they wouldnt need public funds is usable. Now I dont know the exact rules, but I do know that it can be done that way as there was recent case in england that the USC used her fiancee's business assets and income to prove that they wouldnt need public assistance to cover the I-134.

Now I dont know about the AOS, but would think same would apply. Why wouldnt they let you count that?

Thanks dwar Very kind of you.

I don't think it can be counted at this stage with the I-134, unless readily converted to cash as the quote stipulates. At the time of AOS filing, if it's been 6 months, then the income of the beneficiary can be counted on the I-864.

Perhaps there's someone out there who can speak with more experience than me... I prepared the I-134 on the basis of my own assets/income.

Jen

[dwar49 0]

I did the same.

You may be right.

I too will bow to anyone with direct knowledge as now I am finding conflicting information. Neither seems cut and dried when you are dealing with overseas businesses where the foriegn national is owner/self employed.

Anyone, inquiring minds want to know?

By the way this has become one of those threads where the original OP has gone away wondering, "I didnt think that this was that tough a question".

[JenT 0]

It's the 'at any level' that's throwing us.... it makes sense for the I-864, but not for the I-134. We also don't know the nature of the assets and how 'readily convertible' to cash they are....

[gcox457 0]

AFAIK, income of the beneficiary is not considered in most, if not all, (I hate using absolutes that I can't prove, so I won't here) cases because, well, the beneficiary won't be working at that job anymore (in 99.99% of the cases, anyway) once the K-1 is used and the beneficiary moves to the U.S. Convertible assets can be used, but each consulate is free to set their own standard on what is "sufficient". In the UK, numerous folks have "self-sponsored" with as little as a few thousand dollars in cash....which is considered very liberal by comparison to most consulates. The argument of international business and such might be considered in some cases if it were substantiated to the consulate...but more than likely that would be presented as an "asset" anyway with a balance sheet and a cash flow statement rather than self-employment income. And since working in the U.S. without authorization is technically illegal even if the business itself is located somewhere else (unless one finds one of the loopholes that our Corporate Overlords seem to always duck under to avoid paying U.S. taxes) ...that's kind of a grey area to begin with...and more so once AOS is filed (and the temp EAD associated with the K-1 ends). Hence the 6-months in the household rule for the I-864.

One has to remember that when it comes to meeting the requirements for support, each consulate is given a LOT of latitude in setting their own standards. So, it is very difficult to look at Dept. of State documents on the subject and be able to predict from that what consulate xyz will require versus consulate abc. The only way to find that information is through people's experiences, and perhaps directly asking the consulate staff.

At the end of the day, it's always preferable for the petitioner to be able to show the required income so that all of these "grey area" lots-of-latitude scenarios can be avoided to begin with.

[no name 1]

Now I always considered you the queen of warm fuzzies, I was just telling my fiancee tonight how you were like a mother hen always ready with encouraging words!!!

*cluck cluck*

Edited August 9, 2006 by devilette

[Yodrak 7]

JenT,

Another section of the guides that isn't quite right (in the US for 6 months?), and may need more revision than that now that the USCIS has come out with its final rule on the subject of I-864.

But we're talking here of I-134 - time to take another look at what 9 FAM 40.41 Notes has to say about evaluating the public charge requirements of the law when I-864 does not apply.

Yodrak

...

Per the guides:

The foreign fiance's income can NOT be counted on either affidavit (except when the foreign fiance has been

living with the fiance, married, and in the US for six months), however the foreign fiance's assets CAN be used if they are readily convertible into cash. The USCIS is concerned ONLY about the US fiance's income/assets. (Note that in other situations the foreign spouse's income MAY be counted on I-864 affidavit, such as foreigner in U.S. on work or student visa who marries and then files for adjustment of status. IF the foreign spouse has LIVED IN THE HOUSEHOLD of the U.S. spouse for at least 6 months, then his/her income CAN be counted. There are NO situations involving fiance visa in which foreign spouse's income can be counted, as far as I know, when interviewing for the fiance visa or when filing adjustment of status within 6 months of arrival in the US.)

Jen

[JenT 0]

In reviewing the 9 FAM 40.41 Notes, it seems pretty clear that only the petitioner's financial situation is to be considered.

Jen