Governor of Bamiyan province in Afghanistan wants to put back together Buddha statues blown up by Taleban

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

So do you agree with the judicial punishments meted out under Sharia law for (among other things) adultery and homosexuality?

Would that be a yes or a no? Just curious

Dude, she said she agrees with Gods laws in their entirety. Sharia is pretty clear on what the punishments for adultery and fruitcakery are. Why would you think she doesn't agree?

don't distract her, she's busy in the kitchen like a good wife.

[Bosco 1]

The sharia is the laws of God... it's not a 'government'. I don't pick and choose which laws of God I'd like to follow and leave others.... I accept all the laws God laid down for His servants.

Sharia law is based on interpretation of God's laws through the Qur'an and ahadith by man. If there is nothing in the sources, judges then use their knowledge to decide what would be right/wrong based on these sources. These studies developed into areas of jurisprudence that the majority of Muslims follow. Countries vary in how much "sharia" enters their law. For some, like Saudi, it is all encompassing. Many countries only include it in civil or family law.

Salafis believe the traditionalists were wrong and strive to go back to what they think would have been done in the time of the Prophet and his companions. They believe this way is pure.

Salafi in wiki

More on Salafi

Sharia varies from country to country. There are crimes against God (hadd), crimes against society (tazir), and crimes of retalitation (eye for an eye or kesas). Each country enforces their "sharia" differently. Even with a "hadd" crime, there are supposed to be sufficient witnesses or confession and an examination as to the reasons why the crime was committed. The problem lies in implementation. Like most countries, the poor do not always get the same treatment as the rich. Non-Saudis in Saudi Arabia are much more subject to harsher penalities than Saudis.

A decent explanation of sharia can be found here Sharia

Wiki also has an article here - the contemporary practice section describes how most countries now separate the criminal and family codes.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

A blogger I read recently wrote a bit about islamic law that may be of interest:

Islamic Law 101

There are a lot of misconceptions regarding this mysterious, provocative term, Sharī’ah (Sharia). Generally speaking, when we talk about Sharia, we are talking about any of the following:

1- Islamic Law

2- Some sort of Islamic Fascism

3- Some sort of Islamic Authority imposed on people.

4- Lack of “Freedom”

5- Theocratic Rule

So, now let’s set the record a bit straight. My focus here is primarily on addressing issues of terminology. I won’t be addressing the above uses and misuses of Sharia.

In understanding the concept of Sharia, we must also include two other terms: Fiqh and Usul al-Fiqh.

Here is the clarification. Read carefully.

1- Sharia. Sharia is the textual material found in the primary sources of Islam. What are the primary sources? We know that the primary source is itself the Qur’an. But, how was the Qur’an itself put into practice? We look to the generation which received the Qur’an, being the generation of the Prophet -p, and his companions. Thus, in our consideration, the primary sources are the Qur’an, the Hadith, and the Athar. Many of you know what the Qur’an and Hadith are, but many don’t know the Athar; the Athar are Hadith-like narrations of the companions of the Prophet -p.

In simple terms, the Sharia is the textual material of that first generation of Muslims. The Sharia sits on a bookshelf. That’s the material that puts us on the path to the most nourishing water.

2- Usul al-Fiqh. Now, how do we take the material in those texts and apply them to our lives today? That issue is an issue of interpretation. The second you make an interpretive choice on the text, you have made an interpretation of the text. If you choose to read the text literally, you have made an interpretive choice. If you choose to read the text to include analogous items, you have made an interpretive choice. We have passages in the Qur’an forbidding gambling. Is this prohibition of gambling a universal prohibition, or does it apply to particular forms of gambling? This is an interpretive choice.

Now, when making interpretation, a vital issue is the issue of consistency. One place where many Muslims blunder is in remaining consistent in their interpretations. Meaning, in some cases, we argue that a particular law is to be universally applied for all times, while in other places, we assert that certain laws only applied for the first generation of Muslims (may God be pleased with them).

Further, we have the text of the Qur’an and we have the enormous texts of Hadith literature (which are lightly peppered with Athar literature). How do we negotiate through the texts, especially when it looks like one (on the surface) contradicts the other.

How we do make sure we are somewhat consistent in our interpretation? Methodology. In the language of Islamic legal sciences, this methodological approach is Usul al-Fiqh. Usul al-Fiqh is methodology.

3- Fiqh. Fiqh refers to understanding. In legal practice, Fiqh is the listing of rules. All the instructions on practicing each and every aspect of life are found in these books of Fiqh.

In theory, Fiqh is secular law derived from the Sharia. The law is secular in that it applies to our worldly life, even if its orientation may be religious and other-worldly. Details on the mechanics of our prayer are worldly details. Details on business transactions are no less worldly, and no less other-worldly.

Ideally, the roots of Fiqh come from Usul al-Fiqh. Ideally, Fiqh comes from Usul al-Fiqh. Meaning, to figure out an application of the primary sources in our immediate personal lives, a person trained in Usul al-Fiqh will engage in a consistent methodology to develop answers. For example, some of the fiercest language found in the Qur’an and Hadith regard the issue of business transactions that involve Riba. Some individuals translate “riba” as the same thing that we call “interest” in our contemporary society. Others translate “riba” as “usury.” Others still argue that there is no relationship because we are talking about two totally different economic systems. So, which is it? We engage in a methodology to determine our conclusions.

Generally speaking, however, it is common for Fiqh to come from Fiqh. Meaning, if you ask an online website for an answer to a question pertaining to your immediate personal life, it is common that the “scholar” will simply open up a 400 year old book, and quote you an answer to a similar question that was posed 600 years ago. Further, it is common that a certified Muslim scholar (i.e. an Alim) may be trained in navigating through the books of Fiqh, but may not be trained in the formal methodologies in Usul al-Fiqh. So, what happens when we ask about Riba?

The above is a general introduction to Islamic law. I hope it helps. Frankly, in general terms, people use “Sharia” as a term for all of the above.

May God bless you.

On a similar note, I really like this quote from my fav. Sheikh, Hamza Yusuf -

Islam is based on naql (texts) and ‘aql (intellect). Some people just have the texts - we call them naql-heads.

Edited August 10, 2006 by rahma

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Like most countries, the poor do not always get the same treatment as the rich. Non-Saudis in Saudi Arabia are much more subject to harsher penalities than Saudis.

Women, poor victim of sharia law in Aceh

Islamic law in Indonesia's westernmost province of Aceh not only disproportionately targets women and the poor, but it is also creating divisions between the religious and secular police...

[...]

... women and the poor appear to be the primary targets of sharia enforcement, adding that vigilantism has also flared with the gradual implementation of Islamic law.

[...]

...the most problematic institution set up under Islamic law has been the wilayatul hisbah (WH), the vice and virtue patrol, which is tasked with monitoring compliance with sharia.

Its members are highly unpopular, with even those who support the broader application of sharia acknowledging that the members of the patrol are poorly recruited and trained, the report said.

"Women complain that they are disproportionately the targets of WH raids, with far more operations against them for not wearing jilbabs (headscarves) than against men for not attending Friday prayer," the group said.

[...]

Aceh was plagued by nearly three decades of separatist conflict until a 2001 legislation gave it greater autonomy and gave it the authority to become the only province in the country with the world's largest Muslim population to apply sharia.

Before that, Islamic courts in Aceh had handled cases of marriage, divorce and inheritance, but now, their reach extends into criminal justice.

"There's a wide gulf between the popularity of Islamic law in principle and the unpopularity of how it's being enforced," the group's report said.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Talking to a Buddhist friend and my Buddhist wife..... They are not upset that the statues were destroyed. They just see them as statues not idols.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So do you agree with the judicial punishments meted out under Sharia law for (among other things) adultery and homosexuality?

Would that be a yes or a no? Just curious

Dude, she said she agrees with Gods laws in their entirety. Sharia is pretty clear on what the punishments for adultery and fruitcakery are. Why would you think she doesn't agree?

I was just curious - the idea that homosexuality and adultery should be criminal offences punishable by jail, or corporal & capital punishment suggests an extremely divergent world view.

As I said, a person can't be in the same book (let alone the same page) by condemning the Taliban, but at the same time agreeing with most of what they stand for.

[Nizzy 1]

You have some nerve because you don't even know what it means to be Afghan and you are stating that my history doesn't mean anything. I guess all the other stuff I said flew past your head.

You're right, I don't know what it's like to be Afghani. My opinion is based solely on my interpretation of Islamic law.

How would you feel if future generations of muslims (your decendants) started worshipping those statues because they misunderstood the reason they're there?

THose statues have been there for a long time and how many Buddhist Afghans have you run into? A statue in no way brings someone to worship it. Heck, I've got statues all over my room of angels and such. I was even recently thinking of adding a statue of Buddha to my collection cause he is so darn cute. So if those BUddhist statues are such an influence then why are there more CHristian converts among Afghans then BUddhist ones? If someone wants to stray from Islam they will do it regardless of any statue. You don't make sense whatsoever.

Jordanian Princess I lovveeee that quote from Hamza Yusuf. That guy is my favorite speaker and writer. If I have a boy I want to name him Hamza.

[Veiled Princess 1]

So do you agree with the judicial punishments meted out under Sharia law for (among other things) adultery and homosexuality?

Would that be a yes or a no? Just curious

It's not as simple as just yes or no. It depends on the situation. You people make it out like if you walk down the streets of Saudi with a limp wrist you'll be beheaded which prooves that you don't understand how the sharia is implemented there and thus a waste of my time to talk to you about it.

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

The same is true for theft... if it's your first offense I highly doubt you'll lose any part of your body... however, become a habitual offender and you run that risk... also not a lot of one handed folks walking around either.

FYI, check the laws here in the US... adultery is also a crime here and can get you jail time IF you get the wrong judge on the wrong day though it's rarely prosecuted because it's sooooo common. It was only a few years ago that laws forbidding sodomy in the US were ruled unconstitutional... does that mean the US is a stupid barbaric backwards country too?

One thing everyone fails to take into account is the LOW amount of crime that goes on there. Maybe it's not that they are too tough... maybe some systems are too easy....

Anyway, no one is going to agree with me and that's fine... I'm done wasting my time with you people... believe what you will.

[rclouse 0]

Here's my catch-up post:

Am I reading the wrong bible again? huh.gif

This is from the KJV BTW...

Note the underlined part above... sounds like God in the bible was also afraid for His followers to fall into idol worship. yes.gif

That first one there seems pretty clear that this command includes any image of pretty much anything.

One thing I believe should be pounded into people's head is the fact that these

books & revelations occurred a long time ago in a very different world and

society from what we live in today. Practices that were considered normal and

acceptable we would consider abhorrent. The Bible and the Koran make many

references to slavery, for example. Does that mean it's OK for us, today, to

enslave other human beings? If you follow a fundamentalist path (like the one

VP seems to be taking), you'll find a way to justify it religiously.

What VP has done with her defense of the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha

statues is exactly that. She has justified something the rest of us living in

the modern world finds abhorrent.

Islam does not allow Muslims to be befriending members of opposite sex for the sake of companionship or for casual conversations; it has been forbidden because of its risks; it may entail isolation, lead to unlawful flirting, and engender unlawful thoughts, desires or lusts...............

So engaging in unnecessary chatting may lead to unforeseen consequences. It may also engender doubts and suspicions in our minds as well in the minds of others. So we are best advised to shun them altogether in the first place in order to safeguard our religion and honor.

If my wife had followed this train of thought she'd still be in Morocco!

don't distract her, she's busy in the kitchen like a good wife.

You get your ######-### back to the kitchen, and make me some pie!

"Women complain that they are disproportionately the targets of WH raids, with far more operations against them for not wearing jilbabs (headscarves) than against men for not attending Friday prayer," the group said.

That's because they're filthy whores and the tsunami was their fault for not

wearing the hijab.

One other thought: when Danish cartoonists made caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, there were riots, boycotts, and deaths in the Muslim world over it. Embassies were burned. Muslim Governments demanded Denmark apologize for the "crime" against Islam.

When the Taliban destroyed the statues of Buddha at Bamiyan, there was no Buddhist outrage. In fact, Buddhists were among the least upset by this.

Something to think about, VP.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's not as simple as just yes or no. It depends on the situation. You people make it out like if you walk down the streets of Saudi with a limp wrist you'll be beheaded which prooves that you don't understand how the sharia is implemented there and thus a waste of my time to talk to you about it.

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

The same is true for theft... if it's your first offense I highly doubt you'll lose any part of your body... however, become a habitual offender and you run that risk... also not a lot of one handed folks walking around either.

But do you think those acts (homosexuality, theft, adultery) should be punishable by corporal punishment or death?

[anya-D 8]

Talking to a Buddhist friend and my Buddhist wife..... They are not upset that the statues were destroyed. They just see them as statues not idols.

oh.. i'm sure just for that statues.. if it's the statues of the fat buddha in China (or Hong Kong??? hack I dont rmember where it is) or the emeral buddha in Bangkok, we would deffinately care very very much.

Did you heard about the Prah Prohm (a very famous spiritual place in the middle of Bangkok) that was distroyed by a crazy guy by a hammer (like a month ago news)? it was really a lot of cries and upseting people out there- including me... Just that if the statue has no secnificant meaning (only for historical site) to our or other buddhist (like the one in Afgan as it is more of historic statue) then it wasnt really a big deal but i would feel sad for the History. Like in Ayuthaya, people still pay respect to the buddha ruins there becuase it's related directly to the city and history of Thai people. so if it gets destroy then we would re-built it as it is part of our history.

Edited August 10, 2006 by anya-D

[Bosco 1]

It's not as simple as just yes or no. It depends on the situation. You people make it out like if you walk down the streets of Saudi with a limp wrist you'll be beheaded which prooves that you don't understand how the sharia is implemented there and thus a waste of my time to talk to you about it.

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

The same is true for theft... if it's your first offense I highly doubt you'll lose any part of your body... however, become a habitual offender and you run that risk... also not a lot of one handed folks walking around either.

VP,

With all respect to you, I think you lack understanding of how Sharia is implemented in Saudi Arabia. Have you ever taken the time to read the reports? Do you realize that non-Saudis are treated far more harshly than Saudis? Have you ever spent time reading the appalling human rights reports that come out of Saudi Arabia? Sharia may be God's law, but it is implemented by man, and man is inherently flawed.

Do you realize Sharia is not codified in Saudi, leaving people unaware of their rights? There was not even a code of criminal procedure until 2002.

How do you justify women not being able to drive from the Qur'an or ahadith?

How do you justify denying women the right to open a bank account the permission of a male when the Qur'an entitles women to their own wealth?

How do you justify women not being allowed to enter fields such as engineering, law and architecture from an Islamic perspective?

Why did it take until April of this year to allow women to work in retail business? Why did women have to buy their lingerie from men prior to this? Is this God's law?

Why are migrant workers not protected from abuse under Saudi Sharia when Islam is about compassion?

Is human trafficking permitted under God's law?

Is blacking out the arms and legs of cartoon characters, like Lois from "Hi and Lois" somehow protecting the religion? Is Lois that tempting?

Take a look at the facts. Look how many non-Saudis are executed compared to non-Saudis. Look at the actual cases, not an idealized Sharia that is not implemented.

Do you know about Nour Miyati?

Edited August 10, 2006 by Bosco

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

They go to Bahrain for that.

[iceyspots 0]

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

They go to Bahrain for that.

It's not as simple as just yes or no. It depends on the situation. You people make it out like if you walk down the streets of Saudi with a limp wrist you'll be beheaded which prooves that you don't understand how the sharia is implemented there and thus a waste of my time to talk to you about it.

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

The same is true for theft... if it's your first offense I highly doubt you'll lose any part of your body... however, become a habitual offender and you run that risk... also not a lot of one handed folks walking around either.

VP,

With all respect to you, I think you lack understanding of how Sharia is implemented in Saudi Arabia. Have you ever taken the time to read the reports? Do you realize that non-Saudis are treated far more harshly than Saudis? Have you ever spent time reading the appalling human rights reports that come out of Saudi Arabia? Sharia may be God's law, but it is implemented by man, and man is inherently flawed.

Do you realize Sharia is not codified in Saudi, leaving people unaware of their rights? There was not even a code of criminal procedure until 2002.

How do you justify women not being able to drive from the Qur'an or ahadith?

How do you justify denying women the right to open a bank account the permission of a male when the Qur'an entitles women to their own wealth?

How do you justify women not being allowed to enter fields such as engineering, law and architecture from an Islamic perspective?

Why did it take until April of this year to allow women to work in retail business? Why did women have to buy their lingerie from men prior to this? Is this God's law?

Why are migrant workers not protected from abuse under Saudi Sharia when Islam is about compassion?

Is human trafficking permitted under God's law?

Is blacking out the arms and legs of cartoon characters, like Lois from "Hi and Lois" somehow protecting the religion? Is Lois that tempting?

Take a look at the facts. Look how many non-Saudis are executed compared to non-Saudis. Look at the actual cases, not an idealized Sharia that is not implemented.

Do you know about Nour Miyati?

But I thought Saudi is a magic kingdom playground! ::naive:: Guess I was wrong!

[jordanianprincess 0]

How often does a homosexual commit such an act in front of a bunch of witnesses in Saudi? Do you think if they just suspect it they act on it? It's always claimed that homosexuality is rampant in Saudi so if that's true and they're really so hard core then explain why there isn't an execution every day?

They go to Bahrain for that.

LMAO