Governor of Bamiyan province in Afghanistan wants to put back together Buddha statues blown up by Taleban

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Why should sharia law be applicable to things that predate muslim civilisation in the country?

Crucially, do you think a nation's historical treasures should be protected and preserved?

Should the rule of religious law intrude into a nations cultural and historical heritage?

Interesting. Seems like we found some common ground.

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't need a religions of the world class.... I have my holy book that says all the prophets were muslims because they all submitted to God and that's all I need.

Well I'm not sat here trying to poke holes in your religion...really I'm not....but this justification alone would make anyone religious and beliving in God a Muslim, no?

No, if that were the case then the devil would be a muslims, his followers would be muslims, the pharoh would have been a muslim.... there is a huge difference between believing in God and submitting to His will.

But men life the Pope submit their lives to the will of God....are you saying the Pope is Muslim?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well VP....I also think that if you're going to defer to NOT question the choices rulers make, I'm sure I'm never going to see you criticize the US govt..right? After all, they make calls for a ruler to make!

Indeed. Her answer to the question is essentially dismissive and apolitical. I suspect she does have an opinion, but it's probably not too politically correct..

[Veiled Princess 1]

Well VP....I also think that if you're going to defer to NOT question the choices rulers make, I'm sure I'm never going to see you criticize the US govt..right? After all, they make calls for a ruler to make!

I don't agree with many things the govt here does.... I don't agree with things some muslim governments do... I'm free to disagree as long as I'm not disagreeing with something God has ordained.

I don't believe in revolting against any government unless they are really bad to their people.

Let me clarify "I no longer have an opinion"....

My opinion of anything on VJ is constantly called out (even though I am not the only one to have opinions that everyone doesn't agree with) and I am hounded to justify my opinions consistently almost anytime I express having one here. I am told that I should be more tolerant of others though I don't seek to change anyone but everyone wants to change me.

I have explained my feelings about this topic until my fingers have bled and you know the answers to the questions you're asking. For the sake of argument then, I no longer have an opinion on this matter....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well VP....I also think that if you're going to defer to NOT question the choices rulers make, I'm sure I'm never going to see you criticize the US govt..right? After all, they make calls for a ruler to make!

I don't agree with many things the govt here does.... I don't agree with things some muslim governments do... I'm free to disagree as long as I'm not disagreeing with something God has ordained.

I don't believe in revolting against any government unless they are really bad to their people.

Let me clarify "I no longer have an opinion"....

My opinion of anything on VJ is constantly called out (even though I am not the only one to have opinions that everyone doesn't agree with) and I am hounded to justify my opinions consistently almost anytime I express having one here. I am told that I should be more tolerant of others though I don't seek to change anyone but everyone wants to change me.

I have explained my feelings about this topic until my fingers have bled and you know the answers to the questions you're asking. For the sake of argument then, I no longer have an opinion on this matter....

You haven't actually said whether or not you personally agree with the demolition of the statues.

[Veiled Princess 1]

But men life the Pope submit their lives to the will of God....are you saying the Pope is Muslim?

Does he? Or does he lie on the name of one of the greatest prophets of all time and mislead the people?

[Jenn! 918]

But men life the Pope submit their lives to the will of God....are you saying the Pope is Muslim?

Does he? Or does he lie on the name of one of the greatest prophets of all time and mislead the people?

"Lying" implies intent. Are you really saying that the Pope believes differently than what he says?

[Veiled Princess 1]

You haven't actually said whether or not you personally agree with the demolition of the statues.

Have I not? Have I not stated that it's forbidden for such statues to stand in a muslim country? Have I not stated that it's my opinion that the statues in the article should not be rebuilt there? Have I not shown proof from my religion as to why I believe that way? Have I not stated that Islam is a complete way of life and it's laws are meant to be implemented in our daily lives? Have I not stated that had it been the ruler there instead of the taliban I would have agreed with the demolishing of those idols? Have I not spent many pages here explaining why I have this opinion?

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

But men life the Pope submit their lives to the will of God....are you saying the Pope is Muslim?

Does he? Or does he lie on the name of one of the greatest prophets of all time and mislead the people?

has it ever occured to you that you could be wrong and that jesus is not muslim?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Even though I don't agree with VP, I do think she has the idea right that in Islam, the prophets/Jesus/Abraham are considered actually "muslims". I have read it and heard it from others too. If the quran says it, and VP follows the Quran, then why wouldn't she believe that? Again, I don't agree with it but she is following what it says in the Quran (on this issue...but I have no idea about the other issues being discussed).

Then explain why other muslims don't feel the same way?

Good question. I really don't know. My guesses (just guesses tho) would be either they don't know what the Quran says or don't follow it... or the term 'submitting to God' is interpreted differently, one way meaning stricly Muslim/Islam as their religion, and for others meaning just submitted to God but not strictly as a muslim. I don't know.

With all due respect, it could be the other way around. There are many wonderful members in VJ that do follow the Quran and are good muslims who would disagree and be offended by this. Everyone does interpret things differently but to say they don't know Islam or don't follow Islam is incorrect.

Which muslims disagree with it? It's pretty much stated in the Qur'an that God has given His religion to His messangers throughout time, and that religion is submission to God. If a messenger follows that religion, he submits to God, ie he is a muslim.

At least from my knowledge, it's pretty much the majority view that muslims believe all past prophets preached and followed Islam.

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. (3:52)

Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. (2:136)

[Veiled Princess 1]

"Lying" implies intent. Are you really saying that the Pope believes differently than what he says?

I honestly don't know what the pope believes.. I believe the current pope used to be a nazi and at one time believed the eradication of the jews was a good thing?

I have read about priests who have had privvy (sp?) information to scrolls the church knew about that discredited the belief system of christianity who were silenced or told to conceal the truth from the people in order to "unify" the belief in a three god ideology.

I have read about one such priest who converted to Islam after discovering from his long time teacher (another priest) that there was proof in those scrolls that Islam is the truth and Muhammad is truly the final messenger prophesied by Jesus and in the old testament.

I have read scrolls that the church has declared as heresy because they discredit modern christianity even though the scrolls were written by people who actually knew Jesus personally

Allahu 'alim (Only God really knows)

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

You haven't actually said whether or not you personally agree with the demolition of the statues.

Have I not? Have I not stated that it's forbidden for such statues to stand in a muslim country? Have I not stated that it's my opinion that the statues in the article should not be rebuilt there? Have I not shown proof from my religion as to why I believe that way? Have I not stated that Islam is a complete way of life and it's laws are meant to be implemented in our daily lives? Have I not stated that had it been the ruler there instead of the taliban I would have agreed with the demolishing of those idols? Have I not spent many pages here explaining why I have this opinion?

so lemme see if i understand this: when a country becomes predominantly a certain religion, everything about that country that pertains to other religions should be wiped out, removed, whatever, because it's not the prevailing viewpoint.

given that, bring on the bulldozers, the indian burial grounds are no longer sacred.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

While they wait for the Afghan government and the international community to decide whether to rebuild them, a £685,000 project funded by UNESCO, the United Nations' cultural organisation, id=1141822006[/url]

Seems to me that they have more pressing needs than to spend $1,301,034.00 on putting some rocks back together.

All right, I know this was way far back in the thread, but it bears repeating. Afghanistan as a country has been pounded into oblivian these last 26 years. A million dollars could help restore the decimated infastructure, give hundreds if not thousands access to clean drinking water, vaccinate children against disease or teach them how to read.

While it's well and noble to want to reclaim history, let's not forget the people living there too.

The Fragmentation of Afghanistan is an excellent read for those wanting to get a more in depth analysis of it's recent (past two centuries) history and collapse.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You haven't actually said whether or not you personally agree with the demolition of the statues.

Have I not? Have I not stated that it's forbidden for such statues to stand in a muslim country? Have I not stated that it's my opinion that the statues in the article should not be rebuilt there? Have I not shown proof from my religion as to why I believe that way? Have I not stated that Islam is a complete way of life and it's laws are meant to be implemented in our daily lives? Have I not stated that had it been the ruler there instead of the taliban I would have agreed with the demolishing of those idols? Have I not spent many pages here explaining why I have this opinion?

At least you answered that question - explicitly this time.

Does it not matter that the statues pre-dated muslim civilisation by many centuries? I'm simply having a hard time trying to rationalise why it is that you don't consider the archaeological past of a country something to be worth preserving - and why it is you seemingly agree that with obliterating all traces of historical antiquity that don't agree with an essentially fundamentalist world view.

I doubt I'll be able to convince you - but it seems to me to be the height of arrogance to suggest that the only landmarks and relics worth preserving are those that reflect your beliefs and cultural heritage.

so lemme see if i understand this: when a country becomes predominantly a certain religion, everything about that country that pertains to other religions should be wiped out, removed, whatever, because it's not the prevailing viewpoint.

given that, bring on the bulldozers, the indian burial grounds are no longer sacred.

There is an actual term for that - but right now 'cultural genocide' seems to be a fairly apt description.

[Veiled Princess 1]

so lemme see if i understand this: when a country becomes predominantly a certain religion, everything about that country that pertains to other religions should be wiped out, removed, whatever, because it's not the prevailing viewpoint.

given that, bring on the bulldozers, the indian burial grounds are no longer sacred.

That is not what I said..... We are discussing a country that is governed by the laws of the sharia... many (if not most) muslim countries today do not implement the sharia in their governments. The sharia does not allow for idols... making it against the law there.