People protesting the mosque near ground zero verbally attack two Egyptian men.

[Heracles 417]

The basis of the anti-masjid arguments here are that Islam is evil and only those who are ignorant or ill-practicing are the "good" Muslims. That means that the bad Muslims are actually the ones who are practicing the faith authentically. This is a truly dishonest argument and not worth engaging in any ernest manner.

Good [normal] Muslims refers to those who don't want to kill and destroy anyone who disagree or does not believe like they do. You seem to deny those exist or make them out like some sort of equivalent Jesus hates fags isolated group. Unfortunately the last few decades tends to suggest otherwise. Furthermore, they hold up signs Sofiyya, they don't do destroying or butchering people.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't hate Muslim's, for the record. I have grave concern about how many practice and see Islam as their faith. This does not mean that no one can truly believe in Islam in any sort of peaceful manner, nor that many do not indeed do just that. However, intellectual honesty indicates that for many, and historically, Islam was and continues to be practiced in a less than peaceful manner. Ground Zero would be just one proof of that.

This is the basis of my objection to the placement of this particular mosque. It is, despite your false accusations, not without reason or based solely on blind hatred. Sorry that you feel attacked.

I don't waste time on feelings. I pick my battles to allow for a balanced exchange. When the die is cast, and the stage is set that i am asked to answer for all the ignorance being spread on the net, that is a task I'm not willing to take on. I accept the fact that some prefer stunted negativity to productive growth, and that's not something I can change..

[Heracles 417]

I don't waste time on feelings. I pick my battles to allow for a balanced exchange. When the die is cast, and the stage is set that i am asked to answer for all the ignorance being spread on the net, that is a task I'm not willing to take on. I accept the fact that some prefer stunted negativity to productive growth, and that's not something I can change..

Building a mosque at ground zero is not productive growth, it's a provocative measure asking for trouble; which can also be interpreted as saying #### you. It's the equivalent of a drink driver who has killed a family, partying it up next to their grave site and claiming he is doing it to celebrate life.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Good [normal] Muslims refers to those who don't want to kill and destroy anyone who disagree or does not believe like they do. You seem to deny those exist or make them out like some sort of equivalent Jesus hates fags isolated group. Unfortunately the last few decades tends to suggest otherwise. Furthermore, they hold up signs Sofiyya, they don't do destroying or butchering people.

Good grief. I "seem" to deny this or that, and, although it's not true, that seems to be what everyone thinks, so why bother to discuss this? The only way I can be heard, apparently, is if I say only what you want to hear. I am sure that no matter what I say, I can't be right for some of you unless I'm constantly apologizing for how bad you think Islam is and by licking offended, uber sensitive non-Muslim azz with a smile. No thanks.

[alienlovechild 75]

Who here is Catholic? I want them to answer to me for the Inquisition, the Crusades, pediphile scandal, the IRA conflict, the stealing of Native American children, and all the other BS that religion has stood for.

You don't know that Christians killed people who refused to convert? Educate yourself.

There have been churches in Iraq for centuries.

Your lack of credibility is showing as you don't know what's going on over there and choose to talk about things that even devout Christians know about and have had to deal with. But having a single Muslim stand up and examine their own bloody record on today's headlines in out of the question.

"Before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 there were about 1.4 million Christians in Iraq, a Muslim-dominated nation of nearly 30 million. Since then, about 50% of Iraq's Christians have fled the country, taking refuge in neighboring Jordan, Syria, Europe and the USA, according to the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC)."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2010-06-01-iraq-christians_N.htm

I'll take some NYC protestors who have the right to protest over the systematic religious cleansing in your favored part of the world that people like you are always silent about while yakking about the Crusades.

Unfortunately, people like you are a dime a dozen in the Middle East while stuck in the past, little economic growth outside of oil and little sign of becoming anything resembling a free society. If had any credbility you'd take on this issues but you haven't and never will.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Building a mosque at ground zero is not productive growth, it's a provocative measure asking for trouble; which can also be interpreted as saying #### you. It's the equivalent of a drink driver who has killed a family, partying it up next to their grave site and claiming he is doing it to celebrate life.

1. It's not at ground zero.

2. They own it the building and can build it.

3. I don't encourage bigotry nor stupidity even when sugar coated in emotionalism.

4. If this is dancing on graves, I'll need dancing shoes.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Your lack of credibility is showing as you don't know what's going on over there and choose to talk about things that even devout Christians know about and have had to deal with. But having a single Muslim stand up and examine their own bloody record on today's headlines in out of the question.

"Before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 there were about 1.4 million Christians in Iraq, a Muslim-dominated nation of nearly 30 million. Since then, about 50% of Iraq's Christians have fled the country, taking refuge in neighboring Jordan, Syria, Europe and the USA, according to the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC)."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2010-06-01-iraq-christians_N.htm

I'll take some NYC protestors who have the right to protest over the systematic religious cleansing in your favored part of the world that people like you are always silent about while yakking about the Crusades.

Unfortunately, people like you are a dime a dozen in the Middle East while stuck in the past, little economic growth outside of oil and little sign of becoming anything resembling a free society. If had any credbility you'd take on this issues but you haven't and never will.

Why is my credibility lacking because of some quote you post? What have I said that negates it? My family fled Palestine during the war there. Who would you recommend to me to blame for that? Wouldn't you flee a war zone, too? BTW, Jordan and Syria are Muslim countries. I fail to see the connection between anything I've said and more of your accusations.

Should I feel attacked by now?

The truth is you know nothing about me, and have ignored everything I've said, replacing it with self-righteous and misplaced falsehoods. You are a dime a dozen bigot.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Heracles 417]

Good grief. I "seem" to deny this or that, and, although it's not true, that seems to be what everyone thinks, so why bother to discuss this? The only way I can be heard, apparently, is if I say only what you want to hear. I am sure that no matter what I say, I can't be right for some of you unless I'm constantly apologizing for how bad you think Islam is and by licking offended, uber sensitive non-Muslim azz with a smile. No thanks.

Pleeeasee, don't turn this on me. You are the one who is coming on here (and in various other threads) and acting like Christians are the root of evil, yet shocked when fired back upon regarding your religion and its history that is entrenched in war - to this day actually. Furthermore, you downplay the history of Islam or the current level of violence in its name. Not to Middle East: The Crusades ended a good 700 years ago.

Like it or not, this Mosque is provocative and you know it.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Pleeeasee, don't turn this on me. You are the one who is coming on here (and in various other threads) and acting like Christians are the root of evil, yet shocked when fired back upon regarding your religion. Furthermore, you downplay the history of Islam or the current level of violence in its name.

Like it or not, this Mosque is provocative and you know it.

You feel attacked, even as you attack me. If you believe I see Christians as the root of all evil, you make me laugh. I spent 22 years of my life defending Christians in the Middle East. I was married to a Christian for nerly 30 years. I'm related to several and live quite peacefully among many. You refuse to admit that Christians have committed atrocities, but insist that I acknowledge even lies about Muslims. I'm too smart for you, and won't fall into your contrived trap. Too bad for you

The masjid is not a provactive in my neck of the woods. I'm proud that it's going in there, and you have convinced me to attend its opening. But, there are a lot of nasty minded bigots making a big, provactive show. That is a lot to take in.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm curious. Is there anyone here who feels obligated to see things the way I do?

[Heracles 417]

You feel attacked, even as you attack me. If you believe I see Christians as the root of all evil, you make me laugh. I spent 22 years of my life defending Christians in the Middle East. I was married to a Christian for nerly 30 years. I'm related to several and live quite peacefully among many. You refuse to admit that Christians have committed atrocities, but insist that I acknowledge even lies about Muslims. I'm too smart for you, and won't fall into your contrived trap. Too bad for you

I just don't use incidents that happened 700 to 800 years ago to justify the present. It is a cultural thing though. To this day, every single person from a Middle Eastern country I know still goes on about Iran and the CIA coup. Therefore, this is a justification for hatred towards the US and anything Iran does.

Palestine is just another example of people there being obsessed with war and revenge. Then when they amount to nothing because of it, this perpetual cycle of poverty and hatred continues. They then pick a new scapegoat to blame for it and want to kill them and hate them too. Thus, their attitude towards America - their new infidel.

Another example, the difference between Israel and Turkey, well apart from Turkey taking over Cyprus in 1974, is that Israel wants peace. Whereas, Turkey couldn't give a rats azz about peace. Yet these hypocrites have the audacity to demand Israel give Palestine land back.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I just don't use incidents that happened 700 to 800 years ago to justify the present. It is a cultural thing though. To this day, every single person from a Middle Eastern country I know still goes on about Iran and the CIA coup. Therefore, this is a justification for hatred towards the US and anything Iran does.

Palestine is just another example of people there being obsessed with war and revenge. Then when they amount to nothing because of it, this perpetual cycle of poverty and hatred continues. They then pick a new scapegoat to blame for it and want to kill them and hate them too. Thus, their attitude towards America - their new infidel.

Another example, the difference between Israel and Turkey, well apart from Turkey taking over Cyprus in 1974, is that Israel wants peace. Whereas, Turkey couldn't give a rats azz about peace. Yet these hypocrites have the audacity to demand Israel give Palestine land back.

What has this go to do with the masjid in NYC?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I just don't use incidents that happened 700 to 800 years ago to justify the present.

Translation: Don't raise issues that don't fit my agenda.

[Heracles 417]

Translation: Don't raise issues that don't fit my agenda.

Modern Translation: All okay to pull a Middle East and use the past to justify the present, yet develop amnesia regarding thousands of atrocities committed since then. Particularly regarding atrocities committed over the past 10 years. The crusades and apparent CIA backed coup of Iran can justify pretty-much anything. Though, examples of the Ottoman empire since the Crusade, like the 1915 genocide of Armenians is apparently irrelevant - still denied actually.

Perhaps Cyprus took over themselves too?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Modern Translation: All okay to pull a Middle East and use the past to justify the present, yet develop amnesia regarding thousands of atrocities committed since then. Particularly regarding atrocities committed over the past 10 years. The crusades and apparent CIA backed coup of Iran can justify pretty-much anything. Though, examples of the Ottoman empire since the Crusade, like the 1915 genocide of Armenians is apparently irrelevant - still denied actually.

Perhaps Cyprus took over themselves too?

I must have an amnesia similar to yours. Would you like to discuss western colonialization, how they took over, and the effects on the aboriginal populations conquered?