Adverts to promote positive view of Muslims

[KaiserD 12]

Muslims are no more of a monolith than any other demographic group.

Just as racial profiling is silly, to define all worshipers under a single religion (or country) as good, evil, whatever is fruitless and stupid, but that's how it went down. People fear what they don't know, and that day was all about spreading fear. That's no excuse for people to not go and educate themselves (see willingly ignorant), but the best way to overcome is dialogue. If you actually know people of a faith/ethnicity, it takes the "unhuman" element out of it at least, even if you don't agree on elements of worship/way of life.

"We" don't do things in unison nd there is no "Muslim community" to speak of. Yet, just as "they" (whoever they is) always love to do with minorities, as they have with Blacks and Hispanics, they try to lump us as one, try to assign "leaders" to us, try to define is by our lowest common denominators

If Kevin Carylon was the voice of all Pagans, I would throw myself under a bus tomorrow.

But if he was, there would be a lot of "you don't speak for me!" - isn't it natural to be angry at people who's idiocy/lunacy is taking place in the name of something that's important to you? Not that everyday Muslims would have had an adequate chance to express that (in media coverage).

[BishopM 114]

Mahmoud Ayoub states that "The goal of true jihad is to attain a harmony between islam (submission), iman (faith), and ihsan (righteous living)

Submission + Faith + Righteous Living...beautifully and simply said and certainly the cornerstones of a well balanced life. I must have some jihadist in me...and I imagine that we all do.

Blessings,

B

[BishopM 114]

Just as racial profiling is silly, to define all worshipers under a single religion (or country) as good, evil, whatever is fruitless and stupid, but that's how it went down. People fear what they don't know, and that day was all about spreading fear. That's no excuse for people to not go and educate themselves (see willingly ignorant), but the best way to overcome is dialogue. If you actually know people of a faith/ethnicity, it takes the "unhuman" element out of it at least, even if you don't agree on elements of worship/way of life.

If Kevin Carylon was the voice of all Pagans, I would throw myself under a bus tomorrow.

But if he was, there would be a lot of "you don't speak for me!" - isn't it natural to be angry at people who's idiocy/lunacy is taking place in the name of something that's important to you? Not that everyday Muslims would have had an adequate chance to express that (in media coverage).

KD - I dig that graphic with the Waffle House coffe I lived in Marietta for a while and the Waffle House was our temple

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Summary Answer: Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination. Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship independently of Islamic rule is not an option.

The Qur'an: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Does The Bible Preach Violence?

By Rowland Croucher and others

January 3, 2003

Many people have been quoting the Quran out of context in an effort to show that Islam promotes violence. A recent op-ed piece by Cal Thomas is a high profile example.

This is pure nonsense. Thomas and others doing this are taking selected passages and reading them completely out of context to support whatever argument they wish to make. I can do the same thing with the Bible.

Here are some choice passages from the KJV Bible which when read in isolation makes the Bible appear to be a primer for evil:

1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery.

Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history. Cal Thomas, a man who claims to be Christian, would do well to learn something of his own faith s scriptures and history before accusing Islam s Quran of promoting violence.

Summary Answer: Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination. Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship independently of Islamic rule is not an option.

The Qur'an: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down.

[sjr09 155]

Do you think they will have Major Hasan on “taxis, underground trains and bus stops, feature pictures of Muslim professionals.” After all he was a trained in psychiatry.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Gee, I was starting to feel the love, and then this sh!t happens!

[BishopM 114]

Gee, I was starting to feel the love, and then this sh!t happens!

It is what always happens...sadly. It makes me feel tired...

but it was a good convo for a bit so we'll leave it a that!

Edited June 8, 2010 by BishopM

[Laveau 67]

In Islamic lands, may Christians and followers of other non-Islamic relgions freely and openly practice their faiths? No. Can they build houses of worship? Yes, but Churchs are not nearly as extravagant as Mosques in Pk or even a lot of Mosques Texas. Can they publicly speak about their beliefs? No. Can they openly display symbols of their faith? No. Do they have the same rights as their Islamic neighbors? No. Are they required to live according to Islamic laws? Yes.

These questions were answered by my husband who lived all of his life in Pk as a Christian until he moved to USA June 2004.

[Scott & Lai 12]

In Islamic lands, may Christians and followers of other non-Islamic relgions freely and openly practice their faiths? No. Can they build houses of worship? Yes, but Churchs are not nearly as extravagant as Mosques in Pk or even a lot of Mosques Texas. Can they publicly speak about their beliefs? No. Can they openly display symbols of their faith? No. Do they have the same rights as their Islamic neighbors? No. Are they required to live according to Islamic laws? Yes.

These questions were answered by my husband who lived all of his life in Pk as a Christian until he moved to USA June 2004.

Thank you for your honest answer.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Submission + Faith + Righteous Living...beautifully and simply said and certainly the cornerstones of a well balanced life. I must have some jihadist in me...and I imagine that we all do.

Blessings,

B

I am 57 years old, and have been Muslim all of my life. I practice jihad in my struggle to overcome my human inclinations to sleep late when I need to rise early to pray. I practice jihad when I really want a beer lol. I practice jihad when I'd rather ignore lies about my faith, but know it's best to confront them.

Jihad is how we struggle with our basest instincts and weaknesses in order to raise our consciousness and attitude in a way that makes us better examples of God's intent for us. I have no doubt that anyone committed to self-improvement, Christian, Jew, Bahai'i, Buddhist, or even enlightened atheist, tackles resistance from within that must be overcome.

Muslims are hardly perfect. Far be it for us to see ourselves individually as folks who have the credibility to try to force others to believe as we do. Repeatedly, in the Quran, we are told that Allah chooses our path for us. How does one force belief? I know that I cannot convince anyone to convert to Islam, nor can anyone convince me to leave Islam.

The verses in the Quran commanding violence are known as the Sword verses. They have a specific context that involved directing the early ummah regarding how to engage an enemy that was violent toward them. Prior to the Sword verses, Muhammad (pbuh) did not engage the threat with physical contact. In fact, he ran away, and ran away to shelter in the Christian community of Abysinnia, where he had an allies. Later, he took the believers to the city of Medina, hoping to find peace. But, when there was to be no peace, directives for dealing with the hostilities were revealed. Unfortunately, those verses have proven to be the favorite parts of the Quran for the Muslim haters.

Still, those who care to know are impressed more by the dominant Message of bringing people together on-violently.

"If it had been the Lord's Will, they would all have believed- all who are on earth: will you then (Muhammad) compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" Qur'an, 10:99.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, truth stands out clear from error." Qur'an, 2: 256.

"Say: We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another." Qur'an, 3:84.

"O humankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know and deal with each other in kindness (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God (is he who is) the most righteous of you, and God is Knower, Aware." Qur'an, 49:13.

"Invite (all) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and discuss with them in ways that are best and most gracious." Qur'an, 16:25.

"And dispute not with People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury." Qur'an, 29:46.

"If any one kills a person, it would be as if he killed the whole people, and if any one saves a life, it would be as if he saved the whole people." Qur'an, 5:32.

"Whoever kills a person of the People of Covenant (such as Jews, and Christian or people of others creeds or philosophy) with whom there is a covenant between them and Muslims, he or she will not enter Paradise." Bukhari, Tradition # 2930.

Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. Qur'an, 109:1-6.

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well- acquainted with all that ye do.Quran, 4:135

Yes, the Quran, like any Holy Book, is suseptible to those who wish to parcel it out in ways that create fear and division, but that is not the purpose of the Message within.

[KaiserD 12]

KD - I dig that graphic with the Waffle House coffe I lived in Marietta for a while and the Waffle House was our temple

Great isn't it I used to hate coffee until I tried theirs, it's one of the best things about living here. It is a double meaning about a viral video on youtube too but that's another story

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Shal, on 07 June 2010 - 06:22 PM, said:

In Islamic lands, may Christians and followers of other non-Islamic relgions freely and openly practice their faiths? No. Can they build houses of worship? Yes, but Churchs are not nearly as extravagant as Mosques in Pk or even a lot of Mosques Texas. Can they publicly speak about their beliefs? No. Can they openly display symbols of their faith? No. Do they have the same rights as their Islamic neighbors? No. Are they required to live according to Islamic laws? Yes.

These questions were answered by my husband who lived all of his life in Pk as a Christian until he moved to USA June 2004.

There are 23 predominently Muslim countries. I've lived in several of them as a human rights worker over a 22 year period. How non-Muslims are allowed to worship, and even how Muslims are allowed to worship, varies from country to country. No country is a model of Islamic practice, their schools of Islamic jurisprudence and their laws vary. What happens in Pak, stays in Pak. It is not definitive of the esoteric "Muslim world".

Bishop, thx for your compliment about my avatar

Edited June 8, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Fill in the blank.

Yesterday Radical Christians killed ______ people.

Yesterday Radical Muslims killed _______ people.

So you say the Quran doesn't promote violence but the KJV of the bible does. Why such a big difference in the above answers?

BTW, the answers are 0 and 11. You guess where they go.

Does The Bible Preach Violence?

By Rowland Croucher and others

January 3, 2003

Many people have been quoting the Quran out of context in an effort to show that Islam promotes violence. A recent op-ed piece by Cal Thomas is a high profile example.

This is pure nonsense. Thomas and others doing this are taking selected passages and reading them completely out of context to support whatever argument they wish to make. I can do the same thing with the Bible.

Here are some choice passages from the KJV Bible which when read in isolation makes the Bible appear to be a primer for evil:

1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery.

Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history. Cal Thomas, a man who claims to be Christian, would do well to learn something of his own faith s scriptures and history before accusing Islam s Quran of promoting violence.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Fill in the blank.

Yesterday Radical Christians killed ______ people.

Yesterday Radical Muslims killed _______ people.

So you say the Quran doesn't promote violence but the KJV of the bible does. Why such a big difference in the above answers?

BTW, the answers are 0 and 11. You guess where they go.

I doubt that if there were lots of press accusing "Radical Christians" of horrendous acts, that you would stand for associating the word "radical" with Christian".

Read carefully from now on. I never said that there the Bible proomtes violence. I've posted violent parts of the Bible in response to ignorant people who seem to believe their book doesn't have any violent parts while they're making claims that the Quran is all about violence. My point, if you can grasp it, has been, every time, to simply remind our Neanderthal contingent that you can pick and chose verses from either book that make them sound violent. You and a few others have a honed talent for it.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Sofiyya