HELP, Losing sleep over K1 sponsor visa (MANILA)

[val&aimee 0]

hi there VJ members, i need immediate and knowledgeable advice especially from people who have already experienced the same situation. here goes...

my fiance's interview is on the 10th of this month. all the while, while waiting we were confident about th whole sponsor thing because I have my parents co sponsoring the petition. but last night I discovered from posts here that USEM does NOT allow k1 cosponsorship!

I lost my job August 2008 and only made a small amount of money because it was part time because I was a full time college student. however in January I was employed again making about 800-1000 dollars a month. In April I finally graduated. In May I became employed at a higher paying job, even if just by a little. in one week I make $400 gross. $1600/month. If calculated I make $19,200 annually. and I saw that the min for 2 people is $18,000+. i also attached a letter stating that I live with my parents free room and board and food, free everything almost and thy plan on keeping it that way for as long as I want, the same support is offered to my fiance. i also mentioned why my income was low the past year, again bcause i was a full time student (i heard they give consideration when it regards education) So if you look at it I meet the requirements???

Im worried because I just started working on the 10th of May, though I am permanent and full time, will that be a problem for our petition? will the CO say, "oh she just started working and we cant rely on this".

I also included my pay stubs from my previous employer because right now I have only received one check from my NEW job and also a "recommendation" letter from my last job stating that i am welcome back at any time (i hope this helps make the CO think that I will never be jobless and have a strong fall back)

I know this is kind of long thank you for continuing to read, I just want to get all details in so you can give the best of your knowledge also.

my fiance has work history and has a bachelors degree in Information Technology which is in High demand here in the silicon valley ( i hope this is also a plus, help convince the CO that he will not become a public charge)

Please give me some answers, I cant sleep at night thinking about this, Im even distracted at work and verrrrry worried =(

Just in case though i still forwarded all my parents sponsorship to my fiance. Is it safe to say we have a chance at getting approved on the current circumstances?

Thank You in advanced, please help

[pushbrk 13,133]

Visa Information

Date: April 24, 2009

This is in reply to your inquiry of April 24, 2009, regarding your visa concerns.

Petitioners in fiancé(e) (K1) nonimmigrant visa cases are generally expected to provide the

adequacy of their own financial resources to ensure that an alien, after admission into the

United States, will not become primarily dependent on the US Government for subsistence.

While our immigration law does not disallow joint sponsorships for K nonimmigrant visa

applicants, the mere submission of an I-134 Affidavit of Support from joint sponsors is not

sufficient to establish that the alien is not likely to become a public charge. Accordingly, we

make a thorough evaluation of other factors, such as the sponsor’s motives in submitting the

Form I-134, the sponsor’s relationship to the applicant or petitioner, the length of time the

sponsor and applicant have known each other, etc. An I-134 Affidavit of Support submitted by

a casual friend or distant relative who has little or no personal knowledge of the applicant has

limited value. Unlike the I-864 filed by joint sponsors in immigrant visa cases, the I-134 is not

legally binding and imposes no legal obligation on the joint sponsor to make good on his or

her promises. Please be assured that we look at the totality of circumstances in assessing the

credibility of joint sponsorships.

For information about financial sponsorship guidelines, you may visit the U.S. Citizenship and

Immigration Services (USCIS) website at http://www.uscis.gov.

Information regarding fiancé(e) and immigrant visa petitions may be found at our website at

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/ty...types_1315.html or

http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwh3204.html.

Please direct future fiancé(e) and immigrant visa inquiries to this web link:

http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwh3230.html.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Immigrant Visa Correspondence Unit

Consular Section

U.S. Embassy, Manila

1201 Roxas Boulevard

Manila, Philippines

Telephone: (632) 301-2000

Fax: (632) 301-2037

[val&aimee 0]

so i can use a co-sponsor? i guess I kind of wanted to know if I alone as the sponsor will make the cut or not? will they calculate your annual income based on the job you have now even if you havent been working there for a year to provide them with ITRs (for my situation my fiance's interview is also the mark of my 1st whole month at the new company). I just want to play it safe just in case they wont accept my co sponsors that I will meet the requirements. Thank You.

Edited June 4, 2010 by val&aimee

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

so i can use a co-sponsor? i guess I kind of wanted to know if I alone as the sponsor will make the cut or not? will they calculate your annual income based on the job you have now even if you havent been working there for a year to provide them with ITRs (for my situation my fiance's interview is also the mark of my 1st whole month at the new company). I just want to play it safe just in case they wont accept my co sponsors that I will meet the requirements. Thank You.

Pushbrk posted a copy of an email someone received from the Manila Embassy, which pretty much sums up their position. They are giving some basic guidelines, while being intentionally vague about what will or won't pass muster. They reserve the right to make the final decision based on ALL of the information presented. Remember that the public charge determination for a K visa is not simply a matter of barely crossing the finish line with the absolute minimum requirements. The consular officer has wide latitude to make this determination, because none of the promises they get from the sponsor (or co-sponsor) are legally binding. If they're going to take your word for it, then you have to make a believable case for them.

Technically, you just barely qualify on your own based on your projected annual income. Qualifying is a plus factor. Barely qualifying is not.

You've worked on the job for a very short time. If you're still in your traditional "probationary" period then your employer could still cut you loose at any time without cause. This is a negative factor.

Your past tax returns don't indicate that you usually make enough to qualify, and that this year you're just a little low on income. In fact, they show that your financial situation was even worse before. This is a negative factor. However, you were attending school, so you have an explanation for the prior low income.

You live with your parents, and are pretty much supported by them - room and board free. What is the likelihood you could support yourself AND your new spouse on your own income alone? Probably not very good, especially in the Bay Area. It would take the bulk of your take-home pay just to pay rent on a small apartment in Santa Clara county. A little less if you're in Alameda county, and a little more if you're in San Mateo county. This is a negative factor.

There's a good chance they won't accept you as a sole sponsor, so the question is whether they'll accept a co-sponsor.

First, both of your parents can't co-sponsor. There's simply no way to do this with the I-134. You'll have to pick one of them. Let's assume you pick your dad.

His income is going to have to be high enough to qualify according to his household size. As a minimum, that's going to include himself, your fiance, and anybody else he provides support for. Normally, the petitioner is not included in the calculation of the co-sponsor's household size, but in your case - you live with the co-sponsors with free room and board. I think the consulate will assume you are also being supported by them. Add up the household size and look up the 125% poverty guidelines here, and then compare that with your dad's income alone (do not include any income from your mom - she's not the co-sponsor). Does he qualify by a reasonable margin? Can he provide sufficient documentation to prove it?

The last consideration which the Embassy stated was whether they will believe a particular co-sponsor is likely to follow through on their non-binding promise, and make a legal commitment to support the beneficiary AFTER they arrive in the US. For this, they want to see some sort of bond between the co-sponsor and the beneficiary that will make it less likely the co-sponsor will back out when it comes time to sign the I-864. A blood relative of the beneficiary's would be best. A future step-parent is good, though. Perhaps an affidavit from your dad (or whichever parent you choose to be the co-sponsor) affirming that they WILL sign an I-864 for the beneficiary when it comes time to submit the AOS petition.

I think the more compelling you make the case that your fiance WILL be taken care after he arrives in the US, the more likely they'll believe he won't ever become a public charge in the US.

[val&aimee 0]

hi, thanks for that, well my parents file joint taxes and only claimed my brother as their dependent, so if i were to choose one of them to be a co-sponsor how would i list down their dependents? for example i choose my dad i list myself, my brother and fiance? do i include my mom? she has her own income though. and on the tax return since they are joined it makes more sense that they can provide support for us together? how do i go about it? i remember reading somewhere that i can have as many co-sponsors as i want, im confused=( and when my mom petitioned my dad also k1 (long story, they werent marrid yup blahblahblah) her income wasnt enough so the USEM asked for co-sponsors, this was in 2006 and then both my uncle and my aunt co sponsored him and he was here in no time. Im so confused because there are so many different stories and contradictions=(

my current employer stated that i am a temporary employee, so does that help? even just a little?

well its not that we cant and wont move out and provide for ourslves, its more of a traditional thing, where Filipino families always stay together, even if thy have huge salaries, yeah kinda weird but its one of those filipino things, I thought it would help because that means i dont have to pay for rent or anything therefor i have 19,200 all to myslf? well and my fiance of course

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

hi, thanks for that, well my parents file joint taxes and only claimed my brother as their dependent, so if i were to choose one of them to be a co-sponsor how would i list down their dependents? for example i choose my dad i list myself, my brother and fiance? do i include my mom? she has her own income though. and on the tax return since they are joined it makes more sense that they can provide support for us together? how do i go about it? i remember reading somewhere that i can have as many co-sponsors as i want, im confused=( and when my mom petitioned my dad also k1 (long story, they werent marrid yup blahblahblah) her income wasnt enough so the USEM asked for co-sponsors, this was in 2006 and then both my uncle and my aunt co sponsored him and he was here in no time. Im so confused because there are so many different stories and contradictions=(

my current employer stated that i am a temporary employee, so does that help? even just a little?

well its not that we cant and wont move out and provide for ourslves, its more of a traditional thing, where Filipino families always stay together, even if thy have huge salaries, yeah kinda weird but its one of those filipino things, I thought it would help because that means i dont have to pay for rent or anything therefor i have 19,200 all to myslf? well and my fiance of course

Ok, there are two different affidavits of support.

The I-864 is the legally binding one you'll be signing when your husband applies for his green card. For the I-864 there are very specific rules and very specific qualifying criteria. There are also a whole bunch of options available. For example, you can combine income with family members or dependents living in the same household using the I-864A. You can also also divide up sponsorship. For example, if you were sponsoring a husband and his children from a previous marriage, you could have a different co-sponsor for each of them, which reduces the income requirements for each.

The I-134 is the non-binding affidavit you'll be signing for the consulate. Unfortunately, it doesn't have any clear guidelines or qualifying criteria, and simply doesn't provide a way to use the options available with the I-864. There is no corresponding "I-134A". Essentially, the I-134 is little more than a summary sheet and cover letter for the financial evidence (tax returns, etc.).

The two affidavits also serve a slightly different purpose. The I-864 is a legally binding contract by a sponsor that guarantees an immigrant will not become a public charge and collect means tested benefits, and that they will support the immigrant if necessary to ensure this. The I-134 is a tool used by the consulate to make a judgment call whether they believe the beneficiary may or may not become a public charge in the US. Some consulates don't even need to see an I-134, and just want to see the financial evidence. Other consulates are obsessively ####### about the I-134, and have strict requirements for it. Ultimately, it's entirely up to the consulate what they will accept. I don't know of any consulate that will accept multiple co-sponsors or allow co-sponsors to combine income. That doesn't mean you can't submit as many co-sponsor affidavits as you like. The consulate is free to accept or disregard any of them.

The reason there are conflicting stories is because the consular officer is free to make a judgment. They can approve one beneficiary, and then deny another beneficiary with the exact same sponsor financial situation. You're trying to convince them the beneficiary will be supported and not become a public charge, which means presenting a "big picture" that is compelling, and not simply having adequate numbers on a form.

Having joint income taxes is not a problem. Whoever you choose to be the co-sponsor, list only their income on the I-134, and provide their W2's and/or 1099's with a copy of the joint tax return. The other parent would not generally be included in the household size if they have their own income. MAJOR CAVEAT:Your mom petitioned for your dad. Because of this, she signed an affidavit of support for him, which means he is technically her dependent based on that affidavit, and would be included in HER household size. This is further complicated by the fact that she needed a co-sponsor to qualify. Frankly, I don't know how the consulate is going to look at having an LPR (your dad) co-sponsor for you when, technically, he is still covered by an affidavit signed by another co-sponsor. Did your dad become a US citizen yet?

Your employer stating that you are a temporary employee does not help. In fact, it's bad. They want some assurance that your income is sufficient now, and will be sufficient for the foreseeable future. You definitely need a co-sponsor.

I wasn't questioning why you live with your parents. It's not just a Filipino thing. It's the same all over east Asia. The reason it doesn't help with the affidavit of support is that it makes it abundantly clear that you are dependent on someone else to help support you. This will not give the consulate any assurance you can support your husband. If you were compelled, for some reason, to move out then you'd have a very hard time supporting yourself. Again, you definitely need a co-sponsor, and the consulate must be convinced that your co-sponsor is 100% committed to supporting BOTH of you as long as necessary. If I were in your shoes, I'd get my dad to sign a statement swearing he is absolutely committed to supporting you and your new husband, and that he will definitely sign an I-864 as a joint sponsor after you marry your husband in the US.

By the way, you're gorgeous and your fiance is very handsome. You make a great looking couple.

[val&aimee 0]

haha thank you...im sorry i meant permanent...this is what happens when i worry too much =( my dad is still a legal permanent resident, im about to lose my mind...so should i use my mom's instead? thank you so much for all the pointers i hope to hear more if not too much to ask

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Jim - If the petitioner is still gainfully employed at the time of her husband's adjustment of status, out of her probationary period, and earning over the requirements, she should be able to sponsor him without aid of one of her parents. I'm only mentioning this because I wonder about your comment regarding an additional statement from the K1 sponsor that they are willing to sign the I864.

Aimee - If it were me, I'd be kindly asking my employer for another letter removing the word "tempororay". Unless that happens to be the case of course. If you ARE a temporary employee, you of course MUST have someone else for a sponsor.

And Jim - I feel compelled to thank you for another well-written, helpful and kind post to the OP. We need more like you around here.

[pushbrk 13,133]

Having joint income taxes is not a problem. Whoever you choose to be the co-sponsor, list only their income on the I-134, and provide their W2's and/or 1099's with a copy of the joint tax return. The other parent would not generally be included in the household size if they have their own income.

One correction to an otherwise admirably written explanation. When married people "live" in the same household as their spouse, they are counted as part of their spouse's household. So in this example, Dad's household size would include Dad, Mom, Brother and Fiance but may NOT include the USC petitioner who has their own income now, even if claimed on Dad's 2009 tax return. The I-134 doesn't lay things out quite so clearly as the I-864 does but the household size is correctly counted in the same way. I suppose one could be free to simply not list the spouse as fully or partially dependent (based on the sponsor's opinion and/or interpretation) but this interpretation is clearly not proper on an I-864.

Regardless, since the taxes are filed jointly, a Consular officer would conclude that the spouse is part of the household whether listed in the dependent section or not. Remember, the I-134 has no place for the sponsor to state their total household size like the I-864 does.

Edited June 4, 2010 by pushbrk

[val&aimee 0]

Hi Johnny Thank you for your insight, yes I am permanent and it is also stated in the employment letter, I just have a really bad habit of mixing up temporary and permanent especially when I haven’t been thinking straight for the past few days. Hopefully things go like you’ve explained. I read somewhere that it doesn’t matter if you barely make the poverty guideline, and that the important thing is that I met the required cut. The only thing I was worried about is my duration at my new place of employment and that I was only able to provide one pay stub to show for my income, I get my second one on the 15th which will not make it because his interview is on the 10th. I included pay stubs from my last job though, I hope it helps in anyway. Hopefully they give consideration, all I can do is pray and hope for your responses to shed some hope for me=(

[val&aimee 0]

Hi Pushbrk

Now that you have mentioned it, what if there is also a partial dependent included. My parents claim my grandmother as a dependent on their taxes, which is totally “stupid” because she doesn’t live with us…she lives with my aunt and uncle, AND they do not have to provide for her because she gets SS benefits every month along with free med insurance etc etc and everything else like clothing, food etc etc is provided by my aunt and uncle. So I guess the question is do I need to state that my grandmother is part of the household because she was claimed on ITR even she isn’t part of the household? Trust me, sometimes being in a Filipino family drives me crazy.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Aimee -

The general rule of thumb is whatever dependents are claimed on the federal income tax return must be shown as household dependants. So yes, now you have to count grandma.

Have you sent your affidavit yet? I think sometimes a cover letters to the affidavit is helpful. To be sure, your fiance will probably tell the CO that you have been in college and are just now entering the work force. I think you should reiterate that fact in a cover letter to the CO. Preparation for life by attending college is certainly a positive thing. It has, after all, gained you a job.

You MAY find that the CO will be happy with your affidavit after all. If not, your have the affidavit of your Mother or Father at hand.

[val&aimee 0]

Yes sir I understand. So my conclusion is correct me if I am wrong though, I will list my dad himself, my brother, my fiance and my grandmother. I will not list myself as I have my own income, and I will not list my mother either because she has her own income as well, which would also satisfy our household size, even if on her own. I think she should only be listed there if she does not make any money, on the i-134 as I remember it said "list the people who are dependent on you". therefore i think this should exclude my mother and I. well thats my way of thinking though do correct me if im being stubborn.

and yes I did include a cover letter, i wish i had a soft copy with me right now so i can post it here. well basically it says that I do not pay rent because my parents have me living with them at no charge free room and board and the same support is extended to my fiance(other members said that this might be a negative factor, but doesnt that mean we have my salary all to ourselves?).

i also said that I recently graduated, explaining why i didnt make much these past few years, and that i landed a full time permanent job related to my field of study almost right after i graduated. i also advised my fiance to emphasize that I chose to finish college for the better of our future. and also to emphasize that i had another job from the duration of Jan-May, and was confused on whether i should accept the new job offer or not because i have been at my first job of 2010 longer, yet i decided to grasp the opportuniy because it would allow me to support us even more with the higher salary.

please share more advice if you can, thank you so much, and thank you for explaining simply and clearly, it really helps since my mind is already congested of worries and immigration jargon and calculations and more worries. thank you

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim - If the petitioner is still gainfully employed at the time of her husband's adjustment of status, out of her probationary period, and earning over the requirements, she should be able to sponsor him without aid of one of her parents. I'm only mentioning this because I wonder about your comment regarding an additional statement from the K1 sponsor that they are willing to sign the I864.

I was going by her statement that she was a temporary employee. Even if she was still employed at the time of the interview, if she was a temporary employee then the consulate would probably be reluctant to consider her income as likely to continue for the foreseeable future. Anyway, she clarified this. She is a permanent employee. If she has finished her probationary period, then the consulate would probably conclude her income will continue. Because she barely qualifies, I would personally still recommend having a co-sponsor ready.

I said that if I were in her shoes, I'd get a statement from the co-sponsor that they would follow through with the I-864 at the appropriate time. This is part of my own "big picture" view of getting past the public charge determination, and trying to make it clear to the consulate that there is no risk of public charge.

One correction to an otherwise admirably written explanation. When married people "live" in the same household as their spouse, they are counted as part of their spouse's household. So in this example, Dad's household size would include Dad, Mom, Brother and Fiance but may NOT include the USC petitioner who has their own income now, even if claimed on Dad's 2009 tax return. The I-134 doesn't lay things out quite so clearly as the I-864 does but the household size is correctly counted in the same way. I suppose one could be free to simply not list the spouse as fully or partially dependent (based on the sponsor's opinion and/or interpretation) but this interpretation is clearly not proper on an I-864.

Regardless, since the taxes are filed jointly, a Consular officer would conclude that the spouse is part of the household whether listed in the dependent section or not. Remember, the I-134 has no place for the sponsor to state their total household size like the I-864 does.

I spoke with an immigration attorney casually about this almost a year ago. He said that if the consulate included the working spouse of the co-sponsor in the household size determination (as the I-864 allows), then the argument could be made that they should also consider the income of the working spouse in determining the total household income (which the I-864 also allows). He said to do otherwise would be imposing the financial burdens of the I-864 without allowing the financial benefits. For this reason, he said the consular officer will often disregard the working spouse of the co-sponsor, both as a dependent in the determining the household size and as a source of additional income for the co-sponsor. We were talking specifically about the consulate in HCMC. I don't know if the same would apply at another consulate, but his argument made sense to me.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Yes sir I understand. So my conclusion is correct me if I am wrong though, I will list my dad himself, my brother, my fiance and my grandmother. I will not list myself as I have my own income, and I will not list my mother either because she has her own income as well, which would also satisfy our household size, even if on her own. I think she should only be listed there if she does not make any money, on the i-134 as I remember it said "list the people who are dependent on you". therefore i think this should exclude my mother and I. well thats my way of thinking though do correct me if im being stubborn.

This sounds reasonable to me, as well, though pushbrk could be correct about the consulate including your your mother in your dad's household size. Is your dad's income high enough to qualify if his household size were determined to be 5?