Unskilled workers don't have a path to permanent residency

[peejay 327]

It's amazing to me that people like Buscado actually believe it.

It's basic economics: increase the supply of cheap labor and wages go down. Cut off the supply

and businesses will stop importing non-citizens and start hiring Americans again.

Such as when that idiot Bush suspended the Davis-Bacon Act to suspend prevailing wages for the New Orleans Hurricane Katrina cleanup. The town filled up with illegal aliens and we now see ICE patrolling I-10 in Lake Charles because illegal aliens now have a big presence in Louisiana when there was none just a few years ago.

In this case wages go down and cheap labor migrates to sh*t wages. But Obama was gonna fix all that with his hope and change.

[Sock Puppet 14]

Are there honestly any posters on this forum who sincerely support open borders? I think even the most ardent liberal on a forum dedicated to legal immigration would be against it. I'm all for human rights, and the fair treatment of all, but there is a limit.

If you can stop the influx of illegal immigrants into this country, you can better provide for the citizens who should be here. I don't like the consequences of higher consumer prices, but if that is the cost to improve the standard of living here, then so be it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Are there honestly any posters on this forum who sincerely support open borders? I think even the most ardent liberal on a forum dedicated to legal immigration would be against it. I'm all for human rights, and the fair treatment of all, but there is a limit.

If you can stop the influx of illegal immigrants into this country, you can better provide for the citizens who should be here. I don't like the consequences of higher consumer prices, but if that is the cost to improve the standard of living here, then so be it.

If you read the publication, Human Events, like some here do, you too would be fearful of policies which favor more open borders with our neighbors to the north and south of us. Here's just an example:

Bush Administration Erases U.S. Borders With Mexico and Canada

The Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP), signed by President Bush with Mexico and Canada in Waco, Tex., on March 23, 2005, was fundamentally an agreement to erase our borders with Mexico and Canada.

As I have documented below, the SPP “working groups” organized within the U.S. Department of Transportation are signing trilateral memoranda of understanding and other agreements with Mexico and Canada designed to accomplish the open borders goal incrementally, below the radar of mainstream media attention, thereby avoiding public scrutiny. Congress is largely unaware that SPP exists, let alone knowledgeable about the extensive work being done behind the scenes by the executive branch to advance the agenda articulated by the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) to establish a North American Union as a new regional super-government by 2010.

The June 2005 “Report to Leaders” references that the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America was announced at the Waco summit in March 2005. Yet, the SPP declaration was neither a treaty nor a law. The legal status of the declaration was not much more than a press release issued by President Bush, President Vicente Fox, and then-Prime Minister of Canada Paul Martin. Still, somehow SPP.gov conveys the impression that the Waco declaration created de facto a new NAFTA-plus legal status between the three countries that is designated the “Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America,” or “SPP” for short.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15809

[sachinky 465]

But I would like to see opportunities for people like my husband's nieces and nephews in far-flung Africa who have skills but would be willing to come over and "pick lettuce" if it were an option and if it offered them the possibility of "permanent residence" and a road to citizenship. That s not to say that if they had the option of immigrating illegally, they wouldn't take it. They can't, of course, sneak across the border between their country and the US, and they can't qualify for tourist visas or student visas that they can overstay.

I'm curious as to why you think this way. Why should they be given visas to come pick lettuce? Moreover, why should picking lettuce put you on the road to residency and citizenship, in the first place? If they have "skills," as you say they do, let them apply and qualify for a H-1B. Which WILL eventually put them on the path to residency and citizenship. It is precisely THAT mentality that will never get them a tourist or student visa, to be honest. Because of that desperation and overwhelming desire to be in the U.S. that they would employ any means necessary to get/be here. It is why these strict immigration laws are in place. Just because you're hard-working/want to better your life/love the U.S. and would give your right arm to be here doesn't and shouldn't automatically entitle you to a visa/residency/citizenship. As is the case with any First World country--U.S. immigration is primarily family or employment based.

Edited June 3, 2010 by sachinky

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I am in favor of stopping all illegal immigration and filling all jobs of any level with Americans before a single alien gets a job here. I am willing to endure any repercussions of that stance.

Even the unemployment of "your" alien?

[GabiandVi 34]

Now, lets just think about this for a moment: i see a lot of the replies made have been "well, if an unskilled worker is willing to work hard to get ahead, their should be some kind of visa for that". Thats ignorant and unrealistic. In case no one has considered it, the US already is home to at least 350,000,000 people, and the world is home to 7 billion. A lot of those people are USED to working very hard. Does that mean we should just let them all in? Like we have all the space in the WORLD? Whoever's been to China or India will know, that the US is really gonna suck when the population gets THAT high. Its bad enough as is. I'm sorry, but until a country has all the space in the world, the rest of the world will have to learn to fend for itself. Thats the way its always been.

It is also ignorant and unrealistic, not to mention blindly stubborn, to close the door on a possibility of offering visas to unskilled workers in the event we need them. The truth is, if we were to KILL OFF every illegal immigrant tomorrow, we wouldn't have enough citizens/legal residents to fill all the positions those millions of illegals currently hold. I'd rather fill those positions with people who go through the legal process than with more queue-jumpers, but currently that isn't an option.

How many times have your spouse's relatives or friends asked you how they can come to America? And what can you tell them? There is NO WAY to come legally unless you have an immediate family member to petition you or you have a special skill (in which case they are already educated and probably can do as well in their own country) or, if your country participates, you win the greencard lottery.

Who said anything about no restrictions on such visas? Why would you think that such a visa would be granted to anyone and everyone who applies regardless of the employment situation in the US? It would be little different from the "special skills" visa that is currently available, except that it would exist to address a shortage in the unskilled labor force. Not every special skills visa is approved, and visas that were approved for such and such special skill last year may not be available for that skill this year if there is not a need for the skill. What's the difference? If we needed the workers, why wouldn't we offer the visa? It seems stupid to me to not even consider the option. Currently, we have no need for unskilled laborers, but this is in large part due to the number of illegal aliens who fill those positions.

[Heracles 417]

Are there honestly any posters on this forum who sincerely support open borders? I think even the most ardent liberal on a forum dedicated to legal immigration would be against it. I'm all for human rights, and the fair treatment of all, but there is a limit.

If you can stop the influx of illegal immigrants into this country, you can better provide for the citizens who should be here. I don't like the consequences of higher consumer prices, but if that is the cost to improve the standard of living here, then so be it.

Realistically though, how much higher will prices end up? Hardly anything is manufactured here anymore so we won't notice it on that front. Produce price perhaps? I find produce is cheaper in AUS (and fresher) than it is here, where they do pay a good wage. In fact, minimum wage was just raised today to $12.90 USD per hour there; which includes health care and an extra 9% on top of that placed into a private retirement account. Most unskilled people earn much more than that due to the restriction of the labor market. Hence my recent article of Latin American that moved there and are cleaners, yet have managed to purchase three rental houses here in the US.

The largest number of immigrants have moved here in the last decade than at any time in the entire history of the US. In this economy, illegal should be eliminated as an option and even legal needs to be restricted, in order to allow Americans to have access to work; that is, in order to improve the living standards of Americans again.

What many open-border types don't realize is that restricting the labor pool is exactly how one can beat business. Even if minimum wage was zero, good luck trying to find someone to work when the labor supply is restricted and unemployment is at 2%.

[Gemmie 142]

How many times have your spouse's relatives or friends asked you how they can come to America? And what can you tell them? There is NO WAY to come legally unless you have an immediate family member to petition you or you have a special skill (in which case they are already educated and probably can do as well in their own country) or, if your country participates, you win the greencard lottery.

I thought if they could get an employer to sponsor them, they could simply get an employment visa? I don't know too much about work-based visas, so I could be wrong. But it's not all about cheap labour and manual jobs - aren't there options for people that are educated, experienced, yet want a professional position?

[Sock Puppet 14]

There is always the Saudi Arabian model for unskilled labor visas. The visas are granted for a defined period of time and after that period expires, the person is escorted to the airport.

[Sock Puppet 14]

Realistically though, how much higher will prices end up? Hardly anything is manufactured here anymore so we won't notice it on that front. Produce price perhaps? I find produce is cheaper in AUS (and fresher) than it is here, where they do pay a good wage. In fact, minimum wage was just raised today to $12.90 USD per hour there; which includes health care and an extra 9% on top of that placed into a private retirement account. Most unskilled people earn much more than that due to the restriction of the labor market. Hence my recent article of Latin American that moved there and are cleaners, yet have managed to purchase three rental houses here in the US.

The largest number of immigrants have moved here in the last decade than at any time in the entire history of the US. In this economy, illegal should be eliminated as an option and even legal needs to be restricted, in order to allow Americans to have access to work; that is, in order to improve the living standards of Americans again.

What many open-border types don't realize is that restricting the labor pool is exactly how one can beat business. Even if minimum wage was zero, good luck trying to find someone to work when the labor supply is restricted and unemployment is at 2%.

The industry that would have a deeper impact is construction.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Even the unemployment of "your" alien?

i'm almost positive john meant 'illegal' alien.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

I am in favor of stopping all illegal immigration and filling all jobs of any level with Americans before a single "illegal" alien gets a job here. I am willing to endure any repercussions of that stance.

Even the unemployment of "your" alien?

My wife is here legally. Maybe I should have put the word "illegal" in front of the second reference to aliens. I thought my meaning would have been obvious.

[GabiandVi 34]

I thought if they could get an employer to sponsor them, they could simply get an employment visa? I don't know too much about work-based visas, so I could be wrong. But it's not all about cheap labour and manual jobs - aren't there options for people that are educated, experienced, yet want a professional position?

Not unless there is an actual need for a specific skill. I'm suggesting that if there is an actual need for manual laborers, why not offer the visa? We don't have that need currently, but why would anyone want to forbid it if we did have the need? It seems counterintuitive to me.

[Heracles 417]

It is also ignorant and unrealistic, not to mention blindly stubborn, to close the door on a possibility of offering visas to unskilled workers in the event we need them. The truth is, if we were to KILL OFF every illegal immigrant tomorrow, we wouldn't have enough citizens/legal residents to fill all the positions those millions of illegals currently hold. I'd rather fill those positions with people who go through the legal process than with more queue-jumpers, but currently that isn't an option.

How many times have your spouse's relatives or friends asked you how they can come to America? And what can you tell them? There is NO WAY to come legally unless you have an immediate family member to petition you or you have a special skill (in which case they are already educated and probably can do as well in their own country) or, if your country participates, you win the greencard lottery.

Well he is right on the money, who wants their country to end up a China or India? Certainly no other first world country, hence their small population. Once the US reaches that point, it's too late to reverse course - damage done. AUS has had a massive immigration increase and that is causing a range of problems. As a result, they are even discussing and studying the impact of the country potentially reaching 36 million by 2025 and want to slow down immigration. That is how you keep a first world lifestyle. They don't run or rely solely on slogans or cliches like country of immigrants.

It's still quite difficult for unskilled people to enter most other first world countries as well. I will agree that using the points system, many allow people with various skills to enter, which makes it easier. Whereas, over here, you have to have a degree and a job lined up period.

It's not about being anti-immigrant but about using some common sense. Less than 100 years ago, the US had under 100 million people. Now it has 310 million and is projected to reach 500 million. What do people think this will do to the quality of life for most Americans? Now, what does pretty-much every third world country have in common? Hint: involves people and is the opposite to the first world.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

The industry that would have a deeper impact is construction.

Ironically the construction and mining industry are two sectors Australians earn the highest salaries from. Reason being, restriction on supply of unlimited cheap labor.