Unskilled workers don't have a path to permanent residency

[Scott & Lai 12]

Reiterating my earlier post, Dalmia's article is twaddle--as unskilled workers have MORE THAN ONE path to permanent residency, there is no need for more such paths! The fact that Steve did not even NOTICE this really ticks me off.

• marriage to a skilled worker who is in GC process
• marriage to a GC holder (albeit takes longer)
• parent of USC
• child (note: age/marital-status restrictions apply) of USC or GC holder
• sibling of USC aka FB-4 (already in heavy use, considered as "last resort of those who wouldn't otherwise qualify", which is probably the reason for the gross backlogs--12 to 22 years--in this category)
• marriage to USC

Those are all family-based paths. The point was the lack of an employment-based path.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

With millions of illegals here working for less than minimum wage the poor in this country will stay poor. The illegals are hurting poor Americans with their willingness to work for less. If you really had empathy for the poor in this country you would want all illegals to leave and not import unskilled workers at all. We have plenty of unskilled workers already. If the illegals were not here wages would go up due to higher demand and lower availibility of unskilled labor. Yes our prices would go up but that is fine with me if it means our poor are working and not living off of the taxpayers. With your obvious progressive leanings I find it unreal that you would want our poor to suffer like this.

That's inaccurate. It assumes that low skilled jobs are seeing an overflow of applicants which doesn't happen, except perhaps in a deep recession but even then, those who are taking minimum wage jobs now will quit them as soon as the job market improves.

As I stated before, we effectively subsidize employers with Government welfare programs for working Americans living in poverty. If you are in favor in raising the minimum wage, that's great as that wouldn't depend on somehow making the millions of undocumented workers go away, but it would help to lift all boats.

Edited June 2, 2010 by El Buscador

[JohnSmith2007 353]

That's inaccurate. It assumes that low skilled jobs are seeing an overflow of applicants which doesn't happen, except perhaps in a deep recession but even then, those who are taking minimum wage jobs now will quit them as soon as the job market improves.

As I stated before, we effectively subsidize employers with Government welfare programs for working Americans living in poverty. If you are in favor in raising the minimum wage, that's great as that wouldn't depend on somehow making the millions of undocumented workers go away, but it would help to lift all boats.

I am in favor of stopping all illegal immigration and filling all jobs of any level with Americans before a single alien gets a job here. I am willing to endure any repercussions of that stance.

[GabiandVi 34]

Reiterating my earlier post, Dalmia's article is twaddle--as unskilled workers have MORE THAN ONE path to permanent residency, there is no need for more such paths! The fact that Steve did not even NOTICE this really ticks me off.

• marriage to a skilled worker who is in GC process
• marriage to a GC holder (albeit takes longer)
• parent of USC
• child (note: age/marital-status restrictions apply) of USC or GC holder
• sibling of USC aka FB-4 (already in heavy use, considered as "last resort of those who wouldn't otherwise qualify", which is probably the reason for the gross backlogs--12 to 22 years--in this category)
• marriage to USC

But these are coincidental and assume the unskilled laborer has these sorts of relations already, or even encourages fraud marriages. I contend that illegal aliens do "queue-jump" and make legal immigration harder because as long as we have millions of people working here illegally, we have no need for legal unskilled laborers. If we want to be realistic about not offering amnesty, which I would hate to see happen, we have to have a visa that addresses the issue, and there should be some parity. Once that option is in place, the numbers offered to be determined by the need, we could start realistically replacing illegal workers with legal ones.

There would have to be some sort of concurrent program placing unemployed Americans in line for those jobs first.

But I would like to see opportunities for people like my husband's nieces and nephews in far-flung Africa who have skills but would be willing to come over and "pick lettuce" if it were an option and if it offered them the possibility of "permanent residence" and a road to citizenship. That s not to say that if they had the option of immigrating illegally, they wouldn't take it. They can't, of course, sneak across the border between their country and the US, and they can't qualify for tourist visas or student visas that they can overstay.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I thought the point of worker immigration was to bring people who had skills that the US doesn't have or generally lacks? So why bring in workers with no skills at all?

The only reason I can think of is that it drives wages down and creates more corporate profit.

Yup. Unskilled workers need not apply. The Dems just want a larger welfare/voting block.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

But these are coincidental and assume the unskilled laborer has these sorts of relations already, or even encourages fraud marriages. I contend that illegal aliens do "queue-jump" and make legal immigration harder because as long as we have millions of people working here illegally, we have no need for legal unskilled laborers. If we want to be realistic about not offering amnesty, which I would hate to see happen, we have to have a visa that addresses the issue, and there should be some parity. Once that option is in place, the numbers offered to be determined by the need, we could start realistically replacing illegal workers with legal ones.

The marriage to USC could encourage a fraud-marriage, but the others (marriage to skilled worker in-process) is highly unlikely to do so. And 1986 scamnesty by Reagan certainly encouraged the idea of queue jumping in addition to penalising legal immigrants, especially skilled workers (I personally suffered an 18-month "hurry-up-and-wait" as aftereffect of this, where I could not file final-stage, nor make any other long-range plans such as marriage)

There would have to be some sort of concurrent program placing unemployed Americans in line for those jobs first.

But I would like to see opportunities for people like my husband's nieces and nephews in far-flung Africa who have skills but would be willing to come over and "pick lettuce" if it were an option and if it offered them the possibility of "permanent residence" and a road to citizenship. That s not to say that if they had the option of immigrating illegally, they wouldn't take it. They can't, of course, sneak across the border between their country and the US, and they can't qualify for tourist visas or student visas that they can overstay.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There are other jobs that are low or unskilled labor that most Americans won't do or more accurately, can't afford to do - like dishwashers, housemaids, etc. An employer should be able to sponsor such workers if they can reasonably demonstrate a need, and those workers should then be able to find work elsewhere if they are no longer needed.

Can't afford to do? Americans work in all kinds of minimum wage or thereabout jobs. They can obviously afford to work in them. Since every job has to pay minimum wage, the "can't afford to work this job" argument doesn't exactly hold water. Janitorial jobs were long done by Americans - until less demanding and easier to exploit illegal migrants took them. Who benefits? The bottom line. At the expense of the taxpayer.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Can't afford to do? Americans work in all kinds of minimum wage or thereabout jobs. They can obviously afford to work in them. Since every job has to pay minimum wage, the "can't afford to work this job" argument doesn't exactly hold water. Janitorial jobs were long done by Americans - until less demanding and easier to exploit illegal migrants took them. Who benefits? The bottom line. At the expense of the taxpayer.

What I meant by they can't afford to work minimum wage is that a working American who is at poverty level qualifies for a myriad of government welfare programs designed to supplement their insufficient income. Those programs are paid by the taxpayers, whereas guest workers would not qualify for those same programs. I personally think that if we had strong unions in this country for low skilled labor, we wouldn't be having these kinds of discussions.

[SMR 368]

I can tell you don't fully believe that. Don't worry I don't either.

I believe that. I don't believe that everyone will work their way up and attain the American dream. But I certainly believe that everyone can. That is a key difference.

[GabiandVi 34]

1986 scamnesty by Reagan certainly encouraged the idea of queue jumping in addition to penalising legal immigrants, especially skilled workers (I personally suffered an 18-month "hurry-up-and-wait" as aftereffect of this, where I could not file final-stage, nor make any other long-range plans such as marriage)

I am completely against amnesty! We might as well open our borders. But I believe there have to be other options. I don't buy any argument that illegal workers do not suppress wages. Nor do I buy any argument that they do not result in Americans being unemployed or underemployed. By the same token, if EVERY illegal worker went home tomorrow, we would not be able to fill all the jobs with those unemployed Americans. We definitely need unskilled immigrants. I would prefer them to be legal rather than illegal, and it seems fair that we make it truly an immigrant visa. I'm not saying you couldn't extend the presence test for naturalization for these visas and maybe make every such visa short term and renewal contingient upon need and even to a particular field of employment, but I'm not against offering some such visa. In fact, I would like to see it in place.

Currently, we have no visa for people willing to work hard to get ahead. That's what our country is based on. I blame this primarily on illegal immigration.

[Ban Hammer 13,395]

really - who cares if unskilled workers don't have a path to permanent residency? i see enough unskilled workers downtown as it is.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What I meant by they can't afford to work minimum wage is that a working American who is at poverty level qualifies for a myriad of government welfare programs designed to supplement their insufficient income. Those programs are paid by the taxpayers, whereas guest workers would not qualify for those same programs. I personally think that if we had strong unions in this country for low skilled labor, we wouldn't be having these kinds of discussions.

Don't you think that importing - legally or otherwise - millions of unskilled workers is a huge factor that pushed down the wages for these jobs making them the jobs that don't pay a living wage?

[JohnSmith2007 353]

What I meant by they can't afford to work minimum wage is that a working American who is at poverty level qualifies for a myriad of government welfare programs designed to supplement their insufficient income. Those programs are paid by the taxpayers, whereas guest workers would not qualify for those same programs. I personally think that if we had strong unions in this country for low skilled labor, we wouldn't be having these kinds of discussions.

Very few "families" rely on a minimum wage job to support themeselves. Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs, ones that people take to gain experience and work out and up from. The illegals have knocked the base out of our work force by stealing these jobs. Try being a teen-ager looking for his first job today. The illegals have stolen them or suppressed the wages to the point where the only people willing to do the work are the illegals. When I was a kid I took a minimum wage job, worked at it for a while and then moved up to a better paying job. That is the way it is suppost to work. The illegals represent a lower caste class of people that do our dirty work and enrich greedy employers. I find it interesting that you come down on the side of greedy employers rather than poor Americans.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Don't you think that importing - legally or otherwise - millions of unskilled workers is a huge factor that pushed down the wages for these jobs making them the jobs that don't pay a living wage?

I think the whole outsourcing and the weakening of the unions are the biggest factors into lowering of wages, given that most employers looking to hire for low waged jobs will tell you that they have had a difficult time finding people, at least up until the Recession. Those workers who have access to economic mobility will not stay in low wage jobs for long when the economy is healthier. I don't think we can have an honest discussion about protecting American jobs without looking at the consequences of outsourcing and the weakening of the unions, especially given the reality that we'll always need unskilled labor in this country.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Currently, we have no visa for people willing to work hard to get ahead. That's what our country is based on. I blame this primarily on illegal immigration.

Or . . . it may be the other way around!

If there was indeed a visa for people willing to work hard and get ahead, willing to pay taxes, open a small business, employ only one or two Americans, we wouldn't have illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration arose and keeps from the fact that there's no legal alternative to it. If you are hungry, have a dollar, and want to buy a loaf of bread, and you can, you buy it. But if you can't buy it, even if it's priced at one dollar and clearly in stock, and you are still hungry and have to feed your child, you may be inclined to steal it based purely out of the need to survive.