Save Israel

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I agree. Faith shouldn't be mistaken for blind following.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I agree. Faith shouldn't be mistaken for blind following.

Behavior is Believable.

And without Faith, there cannot be Logic. Without a structured believe system, call it whatever you want, upon which to premise your logic, then conversation, logical, or otherwise, has no meaning. Even language has to have an agreed upon set of rules (grammar and vocabulary, for example), without which such discourse would not be possible.

ETA: I hate this editor, Ewok!

Edited June 5, 2010 by ##########

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Faith is defined as belief in the face of the unprovable. Thus it defies logic. If you 'know' then you don't have it on faith.

[daboyz 36]

I don't have any skins in this game. I find it odd that Israel is acting just like the people they railed against. (the german army) In early 1940s they called it the Warsaw Ghetto. Now it should be called the Gaza Ghetto. I find it odd that the same people that went through something similar in 1940 and 1941 (jews and christian Poles) that they would turn around and do the same thing based on some imaginary security threat.

Shame on them. I find it crazy that when something happens in International waters, the Israeli govt. get's a pass so they can investigate it on their own.

We get it. You got screwed in the 30s and 40s. I dont deny that. Quit taking it out on the rest of us. My family from the old country got f*cked as well in southern Poland. They moved on and did well.

They fired some rockets. The IDF went in and wiped out the place. The old standard was suicide bombs. Haven't seen much of that lately??!!

To anyone in Israel, your are naive if you think boarding some ship will give you peace, it will never happen.

[Ggreen 12]

The Jews are Gods chosen people. The Palestinians are not.

The true jews, not the radical terrorists that we see today killing children and their own people, do your avatar a favor and put to hell down there.

[Pooky 3,784]

I don't have any skins in this game. I find it odd that Israel is acting just like the people they railed against. (the german army) In early 1940s they called it the Warsaw Ghetto. Now it should be called the Gaza Ghetto. I find it odd that the same people that went through something similar in 1940 and 1941 (jews and christian Poles) that they would turn around and do the same thing based on some imaginary security threat.

Shame on them. I find it crazy that when something happens in International waters, the Israeli govt. get's a pass so they can investigate it on their own.

We get it. You got screwed in the 30s and 40s. I dont deny that. Quit taking it out on the rest of us. My family from the old country got f*cked as well in southern Poland. They moved on and did well.

They fired some rockets. The IDF went in and wiped out the place. The old standard was suicide bombs. Haven't seen much of that lately??!!

To anyone in Israel, your are naive if you think boarding some ship will give you peace, it will never happen.

Just a couple of differences. Any hostile action from the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto was directed at the occupying German Army, specifically at the German troops. Hamas target Israelis indiscriminately, not caring who they hurt and kill. They never have cared, as long as they inflict suffering on Israel.

And Israel isn't facing "some imaginary security threat", as you put it. Hamas are still launching rockets into Israel, or haven't you heard? As for suicide bombers, don't think we've seen the last of them. Israeli security measures have kept them out for a while, but I think it's only a matter of time before one slips through.

But any resolution has to came from both sides. Israel has made small steps, notably in removing its settlers from Gaza, sometimes by force, and turning the territory over to the Palestinians to self-govern. Of the Palestinian factions, Fatah at least tried talking to Israel, so there is a glimmer of hope somewhere in the darkness. Hamas, on the other hand, has never shown any intention of good faith talks. If that position ever changed, we might get progress that is tangible.

However, there seem to be many, on both sides, who would derail any chance of progress.

Was it any coincidence that the fist "aid" flotilla was due to enter Israeli territorial waters on the day Benjamin Netanyahu was due to meet with President Obama, who is well known for being the least pro-Israli President in recent history and the most in favour of pushing Israel harder to end the Middle East conflict?

Did the "activists" arrange things to embarrass him while meeting Obama? Did they arrange things to prevent the meeting? Or was it just a coincidence?

Did the Israelis board the ships the day before the meeting to give Netanyahu a way out of the meeting? Or did they board the ships early so as not to embarrass Netanyahu during his meeting? Or did they act at night to reduce the media coverage and fail miserably?

The more you look into what goes on in the Middle East, the more questions you come up with.

[daboyz 36]

Just a couple of differences. Any hostile action from the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto was directed at the occupying German Army, specifically at the German troops. Hamas target Israelis indiscriminately, not caring who they hurt and kill. They never have cared, as long as they inflict suffering on Israel.

And Israel isn't facing "some imaginary security threat", as you put it. Hamas are still launching rockets into Israel, or haven't you heard? As for suicide bombers, don't think we've seen the last of them. Israeli security measures have kept them out for a while, but I think it's only a matter of time before one slips through.

But any resolution has to came from both sides. Israel has made small steps, notably in removing its settlers from Gaza, sometimes by force, and turning the territory over to the Palestinians to self-govern. Of the Palestinian factions, Fatah at least tried talking to Israel, so there is a glimmer of hope somewhere in the darkness. Hamas, on the other hand, has never shown any intention of good faith talks. If that position ever changed, we might get progress that is tangible.

However, there seem to be many, on both sides, who would derail any chance of progress.

Was it any coincidence that the fist "aid" flotilla was due to enter Israeli territorial waters on the day Benjamin Netanyahu was due to meet with President Obama, who is well known for being the least pro-Israli President in recent history and the most in favour of pushing Israel harder to end the Middle East conflict?

Did the "activists" arrange things to embarrass him while meeting Obama? Did they arrange things to prevent the meeting? Or was it just a coincidence?

Did the Israelis board the ships the day before the meeting to give Netanyahu a way out of the meeting? Or did they board the ships early so as not to embarrass Netanyahu during his meeting? Or did they act at night to reduce the media coverage and fail miserably?

The more you look into what goes on in the Middle East, the more questions you come up with.

Let me be more specific. That ship was not a security threat.

[Pooky 3,784]

Let me be more specific. That ship was not a security threat.

In the context that Israel has a stated blockade in force around Gaza, and that despite good faith inspections before sailing, the Israelis had no first-hand proof there were no weapons on board, so the ships could be considered as such by Israel.

[daboyz 36]

Just a couple of differences. Any hostile action from the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto was directed at the occupying German Army, specifically at the German troops. Hamas target Israelis indiscriminately, not caring who they hurt and kill. They never have cared, as long as they inflict suffering on Israel.

And Israel isn't facing "some imaginary security threat", as you put it. Hamas are still launching rockets into Israel, or haven't you heard? As for suicide bombers, don't think we've seen the last of them. Israeli security measures have kept them out for a while, but I think it's only a matter of time before one slips through.

But any resolution has to came from both sides. Israel has made small steps, notably in removing its settlers from Gaza, sometimes by force, and turning the territory over to the Palestinians to self-govern. Of the Palestinian factions, Fatah at least tried talking to Israel, so there is a glimmer of hope somewhere in the darkness. Hamas, on the other hand, has never shown any intention of good faith talks. If that position ever changed, we might get progress that is tangible.

However, there seem to be many, on both sides, who would derail any chance of progress.

Was it any coincidence that the fist "aid" flotilla was due to enter Israeli territorial waters on the day Benjamin Netanyahu was due to meet with President Obama, who is well known for being the least pro-Israli President in recent history and the most in favour of pushing Israel harder to end the Middle East conflict?

Did the "activists" arrange things to embarrass him while meeting Obama? Did they arrange things to prevent the meeting? Or was it just a coincidence?

Did the Israelis board the ships the day before the meeting to give Netanyahu a way out of the meeting? Or did they board the ships early so as not to embarrass Netanyahu during his meeting? Or did they act at night to reduce the media coverage and fail miserably?

The more you look into what goes on in the Middle East, the more questions you come up with.

That's just more Kennedy conspiracies.

Personally I'm tired of sending $3 billion a year to a country with a horrible human rights record. They have become what they fought against years ago. It's actually a shame.

I'm not gonna argue with anyone about this one incident, but they have been pulling this $hit for years

[daboyz 36]

In the context that Israel has a stated blockade in force around Gaza, and that despite good faith inspections before sailing, the Israelis had no first-hand proof there were no weapons on board, so the ships could be considered as such by Israel.

That is laughable. Any Brandy in your morning coffee? So if they're not sure attack and kill?

[Pooky 3,784]

That's just more Kennedy conspiracies.

Personally I'm tired of sending $3 billion a year to a country with a horrible human rights record. They have become what they fought against years ago. It's actually a shame.

I'm not gonna argue with anyone about this one incident, but they have been pulling this $hit for years

So have the Palestinians. Nothing new.

Remember, it takes two to tango. And they're both bad dancers.

[Pooky 3,784]

That is laughable. Any Brandy in your morning coffee? So if they're not sure attack and kill?

In the context of a search for weapons, the boarding can be justified under international law.

The first actual violence was instigated by the "activists" on board the ships. Even Al Jazeera are no longer disputing this. The Israeli troops reacted in self-defence and the deaths were a result of "activists" disarming Israelis and using their own firearms against them, provoking the inevitable soldiers' reaction.

So don't get insulting when someone disagrees with your one-sided POV.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Pooky

[daboyz 36]

So have the Palestinians. Nothing new.

Remember, it takes two to tango. And they're both bad dancers.

Hard to tango when the US backs anything you do right or wrong. Kinda a like a tango where one partner only has one leg. The politicians here are terrified about losing their cash from AIPAC and the ADL. It's such a double standard, and I hope people here in the US open their eyes at some point.

I absolutely agree they are both "bad dancers" No argument here. I just get tired of the pro Israeli spin all day everyday.

[daboyz 36]

In the context of a search for weapons, the boarding can be justified under international law.

The first actual violence was instigated by the "activists" on board the ships. Even Al Jazeera are no longer disputing this. The Israeli troops reacted in self-defence and the deaths were a result of "activists" disarming Israelis and using their own firearms against them, provoking the inevitable soldiers' reaction.

So don't get insulting when someone disagrees with your one-sided POV.

Please show me this law. There is no declared war that I am aware of.

When people descend from helicopters with automatic weapons in international waters... Why shouldn't they try to be disarmed?

[Pooky 3,784]

Hard to tango when the US backs anything you do right or wrong. Kinda a like a tango where one partner only has one leg. The politicians here are terrified about losing their cash from AIPAC and the ADL. It's such a double standard, and I hope people here in the US open their eyes at some point.

I absolutely agree they are both "bad dancers" No argument here. I just get tired of the pro Israeli spin all day everyday.

It's hard to have pro-Israeli spin all day everyday when it takes a week for uncensored footage to appear in the media backing Israeli claims they were basically ambushed on the Mavi Marmara, when every international politician is railing against Israel because they can't afford to lose access to Arab oil and when the Israelis themselves are so muted on the whole episode, as is their usual reaction, good or bad.

Remember, not everyone who argues against the "activists" and Palestinian POV is pro-Israeli. Some people look past the partisan positions and try looking at the affair dispassionately. When you do, things are a lot less clear-cut than the media would have you believe.