At least 10 activists dead, dozens hurt in flotilla clashes

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't know. Can you stop assuming that I hold opinions that I don't?

As soon as you start posting your actual opinions instead of verbiage that you can

disown at a moment's notice.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As soon as you start posting your actual opinions instead of verbiage that you can

disown at a moment's notice.

When you accuse of me of holding opinions that I don't, based on nothing - I'm less inclined to participate in a discussion than to tell you to take a flying ** off a short pier.

[mawilson 2,133]

If you want to derail this thread with lies, I'll happily ruin for everyone.

1) You've never said anything positive about Israel. Ever.

2) You don't get your knickers in a twist when other nations do what Israel does/did.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

1) You've never said anything positive about Israel. Ever.

2) You don't get your knickers in a twist when other nations do what Israel does/did.

Well there's no way to argue with this is there - there's nothing factual about that either way and you clearly aren't interested in my opinion, only in your preconceived BS.

[Jenn! 918]

A little hypocritical, don't you think, Mark? When's the last time you said something positive about any Arab state?

[SMR 368]

Surely the key issue is the ship being in international waters...

I view the location of the ship as semantics. Sure, it has implications in international law. But I'm not an international lawyer and I doubt you are. But everybody and his dog knows where they were going and what they were going to do. Whether or not they waited for them to cross the 20 mile mark is immaterial to the ethical points of the issue.

A confrontation was planned, and was expected by both sides. Six ships didn't suddenly appear, and neither did the Israeli operation to seize to the vessels before they reached the blockade. The story was discussed all last week on Middle Eastern news services, including those in Israel. The ships that are to follow on from Italy are also being currently talked about as well in the public and state media.

Yes, the confrontation was planned. That doesn't mean that the IDF was expecting to fight anyone. Clearly, the only people who came expecting a fight were the "peace" activists. Otherwise, I think it's a safe bet that the IDF would have approached things a little different.

[mawilson 2,133]

A little hypocritical, don't you think, Mark? When's the last time you said something positive about any Arab state?

At least you know where I stand. I don't go out of my way to straddle the line

between stating an opinion and not saying anything at all. What I say is my opinion

and you can take it for what it's worth. I won't accuse you of "assuming the opinions

of others based on very little" or "holding opinions that I don't, based on nothing".

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I view the location of the ship as semantics. Sure, it has implications in international law. But I'm not an international lawyer and I doubt you are. But everybody and his dog knows where they were going and what they were going to do. Whether or not they waited for them to cross the 20 mile mark is immaterial to the ethical points of the issue.

Yes, the confrontation was planned. That doesn't mean that the IDF was expecting to fight anyone. Clearly, the only people who came expecting a fight were the "peace" activists. Otherwise, I think it's a safe bet that the IDF would have approached things a little different.

Since when has Israel done anything small, when it comes to their own security concerns? I mean, sinking a US Navy ship monitoring communications in international waters didn't seem to bother the Israelis in the least during the Six Day War.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Since when has Israel done anything small, when it comes to their own security concerns? I mean, sinking a US Navy ship monitoring communications in international waters didn't seem to bother the Israelis in the least during the Six Day War.

Do you think that they did it intentionally and there was a cover up?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I view the location of the ship as semantics. Sure, it has implications in international law. But I'm not an international lawyer and I doubt you are. But everybody and his dog knows where they were going and what they were going to do. Whether or not they waited for them to cross the 20 mile mark is immaterial to the ethical points of the issue.

Yes, the confrontation was planned. That doesn't mean that the IDF was expecting to fight anyone. Clearly, the only people who came expecting a fight were the "peace" activists. Otherwise, I think it's a safe bet that the IDF would have approached things a little different.

That was my point in how they repelled in like that. If they were expecting a fight it would have been much different. I look at it like this, Israel probably engaged the boats early and at night to catch them off guard and avoid a major clash the next day. Obviously it failed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

At least you know where I stand. I don't go out of my way to straddle the line

between stating an opinion and not saying anything at all. What I say is my opinion

and you can take it for what it's worth. I won't accuse you of "assuming the opinions

of others based on very little" or "holding opinions that I don't, based on nothing".

Yes we know where you stand. You must either be firmly and fanatically on one side or the other, and never the twain shall meet.

As I said - go take a flying leap off a balcony.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I view the location of the ship as semantics. Sure, it has implications in international law. But I'm not an international lawyer and I doubt you are. But everybody and his dog knows where they were going and what they were going to do. Whether or not they waited for them to cross the 20 mile mark is immaterial to the ethical points of the issue.

Why?

Why does Israel blockade naval shipments of aid supplies to Gaza (and confiscate things like building materials), when everyone knows that Hamas gets its weapons from underground tunnels - and continues to do so no matter what Israel has tried to do to stop them.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Do you think that they did it intentionally and there was a cover up?

As far as the USS Liberty is concerned, yes to both your questions. I have the advantage of personally knowing one of the "crew members" aboard that vessel when it was attacked. He doesn't blame the "Heebs", as he calls them, for what they did. The US was sharing surveillance photos and monitored communication with all sides in order to diffuse the situation, and prevent the Israelis from doing what they did anyways. The Israelis needed to stop the US efforts to share intelligence with their neighbors, so that they could engage without anyone being aware of the location of the Israeli forces, or their intentions.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

When the ship was lost did it stop US surveillance? IE were there other ships doing the same?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I couldn't tell you for sure. But, evidently given the success of the Israelis fighting on multiple fronts, I would say they did a pretty good job catching some folks unawares.