Tories to Examine Welfare Benefits

[KaiserD 12]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8707652.stm

Now incapacity benefits DO need to be changed. There are too many people like my dead beat father on this benefit and I know damn well he has no intention of going back to work unless someone makes him because he has "depression" (I'm not judging people WITH depression this is a long story that is meaningless here).

However I'm REALLY worried about my mother who is on this benefit, she has an immune system illness which triggers life threatening adrenal shock (she had an attack just 2 weeks ago but was able to control it but she wasn't even doing anything too stressful). It can occur at any time but is mostly in response to stress - in this environment there is going to be no job that doesn't put pressure on their workers to work quickly and efficiently and NOBODY is going to want to hire her with her sick days/inpatient hospital history. As the disabled benefits system currently stands her GP said she is unlikely to qualify =(

________

Britain's welfare system was "trapping" poor people in poverty, the work and pensions secretary said as he unveiled the government's reform plans.

Iain Duncan Smith wants to create a welfare-to-work programme and make benefits more conditional on willingness to work.

He said the system was "broken" and unaffordable.

Shadow work secretary Yvette Cooper claimed the government had cut 80,000 youth jobs. Mr Duncan Smith, brought back into frontline politics by Prime Minister David Cameron, has spent several years in opposition preparing a blueprint for the future of the welfare state. The former Conservative Party leader is now responsible for pushing the government's Welfare Reform Bill - announced in Tuesday's Queen's Speech - through Parliament over the next few months.

We must be here to help people improve their lives, not just park them on long-term benefits.

Iain Duncan Smith

Work and Pensions Secretary

Speaking to welfare experts from the voluntary, private and public sectors on Thursday, Mr Iain Duncan Smith said it was "absurd" that some of the poorest people faced huge penalties for moving from benefits to work. He said 1.4 million people have been on out-of-work benefits for nine or more of the last 10 years.

"This picture is set against a backdrop of 13 years of continuously increasing expenditure, which has outstripped inflation.

"Worse than the growing expense though, is the fact that the money is not even making the impact we want it to," he said. "A system that was originally designed to support the poorest in society is now trapping them in the very condition it was supposed to alleviate." He said it was a "tragedy" that people on incapacity benefit for more than two years were more likely to retire or die than get a job.

"We must be here to help people improve their lives, not just park them on long-term benefits. Aspiration, it seems, is in danger of becoming the preserve of the wealthy."

Incapacity benefit reassessment

Almost five million people were on out of work benefits and 1.4 million under-25s were not working or in full-time education, he said. Outlining a welfare system that he said needed to be simple, Mr Duncan Smith said a Work Programme will be established. It will include allowing older workers on to a welfare-to-work programme immediately rather than having to wait 12 months, as is currently the case. Penalties will be introduced to benefit claimants who refuse to accept jobs, and everyone on incapacity benefit will be reassessed.

Mr Duncan Smith will chair a new Cabinet Committee, involving Cabinet members from the treasury, Home Office, health, and communities and local government, to tackle the underlying causes of poverty.

'Better off'

Ms Cooper said tax credits had made many people in low-paid jobs "thousands of pounds better off" but they did not always realise it. She said the government had cut the job chances for young people.

"If you look really at what the Conservatives are proposing, they talk about trying to get more people back into work.

"In fact, the only thing they have done so far is to cut £300 million from the employment programmes budget - including cutting one of the highest-quality programmes, the Future Jobs Fund - and that means cutting 80,000 youth jobs at a time when unemployment is too high," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. She urged the government to continue with the incapacity reforms started by Labour.

Labour sought to increase incentives to work and introduce penalties for those unwilling to do so, but the Conservatives said reforms must go further and faster to tackle the problem of long-term unemployment, which they say underpins many of the country's most deep-seated social problems.

Labour ideas

During the election campaign, the Tories called for a sliding scale of sanctions for those on benefits who turned down work. As in all policy areas, the government's welfare agenda is having to reflect compromises reached between the Conservatives and the Lib Dems in their coalition agreement.

In an interview with the Guardian newspaper, Mr Duncan-Smith hinted that he was prepared to reach out to sympathetic figures in the Labour Party to try and build a consensus over the reforms.

"Lots of different hard-headed politicians have come into this job saying they're going to do something different and walked out with the bills of social failure still rising," he said.

"I'm determined that we take this once-in-a-generation chance to tie two parties together, and possibly elements of the third, to get the job done."

Sorry about the horrible editing!!!

Edited May 27, 2010 by KaiserD

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Interesting enough.

This is one of those "duh" moments it seems.

Now if only the liberal idiots in this country would get a clue.

Of course that will never happen as that would kill part of their voter base in many cases.

I mean after all EVIL Republicans and Conservatives are for Worker Programs to get people off of Welfare and to help them out of the situation, but to the GOOD Democrats and Liberals they're just trying to take away their benefits and want to leave them for dead.

[ValerieA 350]

Are there jobs available for all these people?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Are there jobs available for all these people?

I believe it is estimated that 52% of the working population actually work for the government in some form. And they are looking at cutting back the civil service too...

[KaiserD 12]

Interesting enough.

This is one of those "duh" moments it seems.

Now if only the liberal idiots in this country would get a clue.

Of course that will never happen as that would kill part of their voter base in many cases.

I mean after all EVIL Republicans and Conservatives are for Worker Programs to get people off of Welfare and to help them out of the situation, but to the GOOD Democrats and Liberals they're just trying to take away their benefits and want to leave them for dead.

It will happen, they are already in power and they will use the power of "but we NEED to cut back so this country can recover" for absolutely anything they need, for better and for worse. This was already brought up and even Labour admitted it needed changes, but they were not drastic enough for the conservatives and I guess with other things it got swept under the carpet.

And it is true, the incapacity benefit is really for people who have a longer term sickness who are expected to regain their health. A very nasty infection, a sickness that is causing serious problems but is in the middle of being diagnosed for further treatment e.t.c. But it's being used a stop gap for people who are sick (like my mum) but don't count as being disabled. They need to adjust the laws for the disability that cover a means of survival for people who are not well enough to work for the rest of their lives but get the able bodied back to work.

It should go something like this:

Work sick leave

Incapacity benefit (up to 2 years)

Review incapacity benefits

Then: Back to work / renew capacity benefit 1 - 2 years (for further observation) or disability depending on persons prognosis.

Politicians know that a good block of these people who get incapacity benefit are those with depression, they have a limitless time on these benefits. I've had this too so not speaking cluelessly and I understand that everyone is different, but life is hard for lots of people and sometimes you need to suck it up. Working even a nasty job gives you pride that at least you are supporting yourself (even when you have bosses that treat you like dirt), it's not like the state does not provide no means at all for people who are struggling. If you're that sick that you think you'll commit suicide if you go to work another day - there's a place for that. It's not a pretty place, but if you can't work because you're sick, its the place that gets you better. Duh.

I think the demographic of welfare leeches in the US is a lot less than people would have you believe, in the UK it is a serious problem. Most of us will have had the ah..pleasure of having to deal with someone with benefit entitlement issues. It's not right, working people can/should only shoulder so much of the burden.

Are there jobs available for all these people?

This however, I believe is another question entirely.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I think there's been a fine line lost in 'capable' and 'incapable' - at least here in the US.

There are plenty of able people who jus leech the system because it's easy enough. Especially if you're a female who gets knocked up. Free housing, free food, free spending money, and you get even more if you pop out another kid.

They should hire doctors and psychologists to determine if people are healthy and capable and then give them a time limit for the amount of time they can be on the system before they get cut-off and forced to work...

Welfare-to-work programs do work and are a great thing if an area is willing to have them.

Also there should be madatory drug testing for those on welfare as well, and things like alcohol should be blocked from their benefit cards.

[Heracles 417]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8707652.stm

Now incapacity benefits DO need to be changed. There are too many people like my dead beat father on this benefit and I know damn well he has no intention of going back to work unless someone makes him because he has "depression" (I'm not judging people WITH depression this is a long story that is meaningless here).

However I'm REALLY worried about my mother who is on this benefit, she has an immune system illness which triggers life threatening adrenal shock (she had an attack just 2 weeks ago but was able to control it but she wasn't even doing anything too stressful). It can occur at any time but is mostly in response to stress - in this environment there is going to be no job that doesn't put pressure on their workers to work quickly and efficiently and NOBODY is going to want to hire her with her sick days/inpatient hospital history. As the disabled benefits system currently stands her GP said she is unlikely to qualify =(

I have to commend you. Not too many people on here know how to post and article and follow it up with their own opinion.

The UK needs to look at adopting a number of anti-bludger measures used by Australia that were put in place by the liberal party there.

I remember reading an article a few years back where a professor who had more than six kids quit work because he received more fringe benefits being on welfare than while working.

[Nina~ 431]

I think there's been a fine line lost in 'capable' and 'incapable' - at least here in the US.

There are plenty of able people who jus leech the system because it's easy enough. Especially if you're a female who gets knocked up. Free housing, free food, free spending money, and you get even more if you pop out another kid.

They should hire doctors and psychologists to determine if people are healthy and capable and then give them a time limit for the amount of time they can be on the system before they get cut-off and forced to work...

Welfare-to-work programs do work and are a great thing if an area is willing to have them.

Also there should be madatory drug testing for those on welfare as well, and things like alcohol should be blocked from their benefit cards.

Your comments on "knocked up women" are extremely offensive. Where in the world do you get the idea that women get knocked up and want to live on welfare?? It is every sane woman's desire to provide the best for their kids, and living on welfare is not a free pass that knocked-up women seek! I have never been a single mom, nor come from a single parent household. However, most of the single moms I know work 2-3 jobs trying to put food on the table, clothes on the back, and a roof over their heads. Where do you come off accusing "knocked up women" for getting a free ride?

[Heracles 417]

I think there's been a fine line lost in 'capable' and 'incapable' - at least here in the US.

There are plenty of able people who jus leech the system because it's easy enough. Especially if you're a female who gets knocked up. Free housing, free food, free spending money, and you get even more if you pop out another kid.

They should hire doctors and psychologists to determine if people are healthy and capable and then give them a time limit for the amount of time they can be on the system before they get cut-off and forced to work...

Welfare-to-work programs do work and are a great thing if an area is willing to have them.

Also there should be madatory drug testing for those on welfare as well, and things like alcohol should be blocked from their benefit cards.

Dude please, what sort of welfare do people actually receive here? America has done little to stamp out poverty or the underclass. Actually, every measure taken by the private sector has made it worse. It's not the government that exported job after job to a foreign country.

Ironically, someone in AUS on [unlimited] unemployment benefits receives about the same as someone working a 40 hour week on minimum wage here. Surely that should have killed jobs in AUS right? Wrong. Their unemployment rate is lower than the US. Actually, once of the lowest in the industrialized world. However, they do something that neither the UK nor America does and that is to tightly restrict (control) the labor market. They basically don't have open border policies as does the UK and the US. Supply and Demand 101.

However, you are right about the underclass getting knocked up. It's almost an epidemic here.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

Your comments on "knocked up women" are extremely offensive. Where in the world do you get the idea that women get knocked up and want to live on welfare?? It is every sane woman's desire to provide the best for their kids, and living on welfare is not a free pass that knocked-up women seek! I have never been a single mom, nor come from a single parent household. However, most of the single moms I know work 2-3 jobs trying to put food on the table, clothes on the back, and a roof over their heads. Where do you come off accusing "knocked up women" for getting a free ride?

Offensive? Paul is spot on. Go to any ghetto and people without 50 cennnn to their name, have three kids. These also tend t be the same people who cry poor yet have $3k worth of rims on their car or the latest iphone. My favorite though is the Coach and LV purses their teenagers carry.

How many times have I read or heard about mothers from the underclass have kids with multiple partners. Actually, if I recall, there was an article post on here a few months ago where the mother has liek eight kids from different spouses and living in a hotel. Furthermore, demanded to know what the guvamint is going to do for her. Give her a kick in the azz, that is what the guvumint should do to her.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Nina~ 431]

Offensive? Paul is spot on. Go to any ghetto and people without 50 cennnn to their name, have three kids.

How many times have I read or heard about mothers from the underclass have kids with multiple partners. Actually, if I recall, there was an article post on here a few months ago where the mother has liek eight kids from different spouses and living in a hotel. Furthermore, demanded to know what the guvamint is going to do for her. Give her a kick in the azz, that is what the guvumint should do to her.

Right, you have all ghetto women figured out Good fer ya!

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Your comments on "knocked up women" are extremely offensive. Where in the world do you get the idea that women get knocked up and want to live on welfare?? It is every sane woman's desire to provide the best for their kids, and living on welfare is not a free pass that knocked-up women seek! I have never been a single mom, nor come from a single parent household. However, most of the single moms I know work 2-3 jobs trying to put food on the table, clothes on the back, and a roof over their heads. Where do you come off accusing "knocked up women" for getting a free ride?

The truth is offensive? Come on now.... Stop that.

I never said all women who get knocked up. I said the situation was beneficial for women who get knocked up. So chill.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Your comments on "knocked up women" are extremely offensive. Where in the world do you get the idea that women get knocked up and want to live on welfare?? It is every sane woman's desire to provide the best for their kids, and living on welfare is not a free pass that knocked-up women seek! I have never been a single mom, nor come from a single parent household. However, most of the single moms I know work 2-3 jobs trying to put food on the table, clothes on the back, and a roof over their heads. Where do you come off accusing "knocked up women" for getting a free ride?

i'm not defending the 'knocked up/ free ride' comment, i agree it was uncalled for. and my mother was a single parent raising 4 kids while working 3 jobs, so i can relate to the single moms you mention. but, a single mother w/ kids on assistance programs that continues to have unprotected sex couldn't possibly be considered as someone trying to get off those programs or keep from adding to the their problems. yes it does happen.

[Heracles 417]

Right, you have all ghetto women figured out Good fer ya!

Evidently better than some. The one thing that is evident is that many in the ghetto couldn't give a #### about improving their life. We sure as hell can stack up on the DVD and pay using EBT but good luck trying to get them to buy a can of paint to fix their house, let alone a broom to take care of the section 8 house they live in for close to nothing.

What many like yourself fail to understand is that you are dealing with a ex-convict Aussie here rather than some goodie-two-shoes Pilgrim yank. So that ###### many in the ghetto try to pull off doesn't fly with me.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

i'm not defending the 'knocked up/ free ride' comment, i agree it was uncalled for. and my mother was a single parent raising 4 kids while working 3 jobs, so i can relate to the single moms you mention. but, a single mother w/ kids on assistance programs that continues to have unprotected sex couldn't possibly be considered as someone trying to get off those programs or keep from adding to the their problems. yes it does happen.

Of course there is a difference. People fall on bad circumstance and bad luck, therefore, these people should be assisted; as they are in most other first world countries. I have no problem helping people who are genuine out as it could be anyone of us.

What I despise and I think Paul is referring to is the fuckwits who do nothing with their lives but had kid after kid (from different fathers) and then have the audacity to ask for mo moniii.