Ukraine - USA School Equivalency

[eekee 182]

I've always been bewildered by this belief. Parents who pay thousands of dollars to get their kid an education they could get for free. Why?

My parents felt the same way as visaveteran does, and I never went to public school. I received a great education with teachers who really cared and many of them had phds in the subjects they taught. I grew up in a pretty nice area, and from what I've heard from students who went through the public school system, the education is pretty appalling. When a kid who is the 12th grade Honors English class can write on a final that A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is about a painter (!!!) and not get the answer marked wrong, that's enough for me to be grateful every day that I was not sent to public school.

[eekee 182]

The same goes for college education. Russian college education is intense, even unreasonably so in my opinion. We have found the administration at Sergey's school to be very ridgid and very reluctant to budge on any concessions regarding missing a class or an exam. It just isn't acceptable. In Alla's college courses here, they give her an email address to report if they are going to miss class. What? Miss class? We can miss class and just send an email? We will not be beaten, shot in the eye, forced to dig coal? (OK, I exaggerate a bit)

Doesn't your stepson go to the best engineering school in Moscow or something? From what I've seen, Sergey's experience differs greatly from the normal Russian university experience. Actually going to class? Actually studying for exams? What? Like many other things in Russia, a university "education" can just be bought. Didn't have time to study? Pay the instructor xxxx roubles and receive the grade of your choice. I have a friend who teaches English at a university here, and the hardest part of the job is explaining to students that yes, if you only show up for the last class you WILL NOT receive a passing grade.

[Terry&Tigger 4]

Doesn't your stepson go to the best engineering school in Moscow or something? From what I've seen, Sergey's experience differs greatly from the normal Russian university experience. Actually going to class? Actually studying for exams? What? Like many other things in Russia, a university "education" can just be bought. Didn't have time to study? Pay the instructor xxxx roubles and receive the grade of your choice. I have a friend who teaches English at a university here, and the hardest part of the job is explaining to students that yes, if you only show up for the last class you WILL NOT receive a passing grade.

Disagree. I'd say, the university your friend teaches at is more likely an exception. Yes, you can buy a passing grade, as easily as you can buy a final thesis written for you by someone else or even the 'diploma' at SOME schools here. Yes, that happens but that happening does not mean it is a general rule.

For some reason that happens more often at 'posh' schools for the so called 'golden youths' - where the education is very expensive - and for certain people 'expensive' automatically means 'good' - and most students are kids of extremely well-off parents. The type of kids who get a Porsche for their 18th birthday and trips to Milan twice a year to shop for 'haute couture' clothes :)The type of kids who were taught that money can buy anything.

Luckily, there are few of those.

Am very proud to say that university education is very intense here. Some may feel it is too deep and intense, but, imho, at least they teach things to you. You wanna learn - you go learn, the teachers and classes are there for you. Get as much knowledge as you can.

: my step-son-to-be (USC) is 16 now, and he was NEVER taught physics at his high school. Public school. Three more years of classes to go. No physics on schedule either.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Doesn't your stepson go to the best engineering school in Moscow or something? From what I've seen, Sergey's experience differs greatly from the normal Russian university experience. Actually going to class? Actually studying for exams? What? Like many other things in Russia, a university "education" can just be bought. Didn't have time to study? Pay the instructor xxxx roubles and receive the grade of your choice. I have a friend who teaches English at a university here, and the hardest part of the job is explaining to students that yes, if you only show up for the last class you WILL NOT receive a passing grade.

Yes, he does. Moscow Physical Technical Institute. There is no buying of grades that I am aware of. They will kick you out for missing 3 classes all year...even if you are sick. And they mean it. One of Sergey's room mates got booted for missing three days and he was in his 3rd year! We had to go through several high level administrative meetings to get an OK for him to arrive to classes late IF we had to wait a couple weeks longer for him to get his green card last summer. I mean they really didn't give a rat's @ss. They avoid cheating on exams by following up each one with individual oral exams, sometimes over 2-3 days. When they have breaks, often they give them homework that must be turned in when they come back that involves using the school resources and labs, they donl;t even want them to leave during breaks! It is borderline wacko if you ask me. They expect you to get A's, not just pass, not just show up. If your grades fall below a "4" (what we call a "B") they will kick you out.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Disagree. I'd say, the university your friend teaches at is more likely an exception. Yes, you can buy a passing grade, as easily as you can buy a final thesis written for you by someone else or even the 'diploma' at SOME schools here. Yes, that happens but that happening does not mean it is a general rule.

For some reason that happens more often at 'posh' schools for the so called 'golden youths' - where the education is very expensive - and for certain people 'expensive' automatically means 'good' - and most students are kids of extremely well-off parents. The type of kids who get a Porsche for their 18th birthday and trips to Milan twice a year to shop for 'haute couture' clothes :)The type of kids who were taught that money can buy anything.

Luckily, there are few of those.

Am very proud to say that university education is very intense here. Some may feel it is too deep and intense, but, imho, at least they teach things to you. You wanna learn - you go learn, the teachers and classes are there for you. Get as much knowledge as you can.

: my step-son-to-be (USC) is 16 now, and he was NEVER taught physics at his high school. Public school. Three more years of classes to go. No physics on schedule either.

MPTI is not an expensive school, even for a Ukrainian, and it is FREE for Russians. BUT they do not accept just anyone. Sergey went through many exams for a year, many trips to Moscow, and he was appointments and had to be there. Imagine a year of USCIS appointments, and if you miss ONE, you are out. If you even try to change an appointment date they will say "I guess you do not want to go t school here", and after all that, if you are chosen, you get "invited" to the school. For the second year you have to be reviewed by a committee and see if they think they will let you go for the 2nd year. His tuition and room and board are dirt cheap compared to even a Community College here, but the school considers itself the best and tolerates NO bullsh*t, they literally have 100 or more students waiting for you to be kicked out so they can have a chance. It is also not a cushy place, pretty austere, "Soviet style" housing, 4 boys to a room, but they recently built a new dormitory that promises a few more amenities.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I've always been bewildered by this belief. Parents who pay thousands of dollars to get their kid an education they could get for free. Why?

I understand it completely. Public education in the US borders on embarrassing in some areas. I think we are fortunate here in Vermont to have some top rated schools and mostly because of our small size. A 20 student class is pretty rare and Vermont is an affluent state, really. Education is also one of the major employer bases here. 20% of the population of Burlington, by far the largest city in the state, are students. The schools are pretty good, there are a few bad ones. We have some school DISTRICTS with 12 students...in the district! Not in a class, not in a school....12 students in a school district! Pasha's ESL class was 5 students and he attends one of the largest high schools in the state. They get pretty good personalized instruction.

I used to live in Kentucky. If I had to educate children there I would sell my soul and work 29 hours a day to pay for private school (Sorry Brad)

Actually there is little I consider a better investment than a child's education.

I really wish our government would allow us to choose which school gets our tax dollars. In some areas of Vermont, such as where I used to live, we have that situation. The islands had no high school, so we could choose any school in the state. That school would get a percentage of the property tax in our county for high schools. If 10% of the county high school students went to that school, they got 10% of the tax dollars from that county as "tuition" They COMPETED to get our kids, had "school fairs" where they marketed their benefits. Pasha now goes to the same high school, but can walk instead of riding a bus for an hour (they provided the bus pick up at our door) and people in this town agree that because of the money received from surrounding rural counties and because of the competition the school must enter to get students from surrounding rural counties...the school is just a whole lot better.

If public schools had to compete with private schools, and if the thousands I already pay in property tax could also go to a private school's tuition if I choose, then I think everyone would get a better education.

as it is we are being forced to pay for mediocre education and if we choose not to use it, we are still forced to pay for it. Where is the incentive to improve public education if they continue to be fed money for no particular outcome?

[eekee 182]

Disagree. I'd say, the university your friend teaches at is more likely an exception. Yes, you can buy a passing grade, as easily as you can buy a final thesis written for you by someone else or even the 'diploma' at SOME schools here. Yes, that happens but that happening does not mean it is a general rule.

For some reason that happens more often at 'posh' schools for the so called 'golden youths' - where the education is very expensive - and for certain people 'expensive' automatically means 'good' - and most students are kids of extremely well-off parents. The type of kids who get a Porsche for their 18th birthday and trips to Milan twice a year to shop for 'haute couture' clothes :)The type of kids who were taught that money can buy anything.

Luckily, there are few of those.

Am very proud to say that university education is very intense here. Some may feel it is too deep and intense, but, imho, at least they teach things to you. You wanna learn - you go learn, the teachers and classes are there for you. Get as much knowledge as you can.

: my step-son-to-be (USC) is 16 now, and he was NEVER taught physics at his high school. Public school. Three more years of classes to go. No physics on schedule either.

She teaches at SPbGU. I hardly see something that happens at SPbGU as being an exception to the rule. (Although buying grades etc. does not happen where she teaches that I know of.) I have friends who are currently enrolled in/recently went to many different Russian universities, and cheating and bribes are much more tolerated than in America. And I don't know any "golden youth."

Sure, you can get a good education here if you work hard. I myself spent a year at a Russian university during my undergrad and am currently working toward a Master's here. But from what I've heard from my friends, conversations with professors about the state of higher education in Russia, and discussions during English classes I've taught, academic honesty and integrity isn't exactly the order of the day here.