Ukraine - USA School Equivalency

[Casper&Diana 0]

Greetings Fellow Journeyers! I will have a new 14 year old son when the visa process finally ends. (Interview in Kiev on June 24th!!!) The question is in what grade should the son start school here in September? At 14 1/2 and finishing his 8th year of school in Ukraine, I would think he would start as a high school freshman (9th grade) here. His mother has been reading some UA websites from other parents that suggest holding him back and re-doing 8th grade in America to make the transition easier. I worry that, as a bright kid, he would be bored to tears.

I realize English skills will be an issue but he and the mother both speak some English already and I will have them both in English as a Second Language (ESL) classes as soon as they come to Oregon. He will have had 2 months of immersion in language and culture (including two new older sisters--heaven help the boy!) before schools starts in September.

Anybody have any thoughts/experience with this issue?

Spasibo!

[jimnlena 8]

Greetings Fellow Journeyers! I will have a new 14 year old son when the visa process finally ends. (Interview in Kiev on June 24th!!!) The question is in what grade should the son start school here in September? At 14 1/2 and finishing his 8th year of school in Ukraine, I would think he would start as a high school freshman (9th grade) here. His mother has been reading some UA websites from other parents that suggest holding him back and re-doing 8th grade in America to make the transition easier. I worry that, as a bright kid, he would be bored to tears.

I realize English skills will be an issue but he and the mother both speak some English already and I will have them both in English as a Second Language (ESL) classes as soon as they come to Oregon. He will have had 2 months of immersion in language and culture (including two new older sisters--heaven help the boy!) before schools starts in September.

Anybody have any thoughts/experience with this issue?

Spasibo!

Have him start the 9th grade, even with language difference he will be able to keep up easily.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Greetings Fellow Journeyers! I will have a new 14 year old son when the visa process finally ends. (Interview in Kiev on June 24th!!!) The question is in what grade should the son start school here in September? At 14 1/2 and finishing his 8th year of school in Ukraine, I would think he would start as a high school freshman (9th grade) here. His mother has been reading some UA websites from other parents that suggest holding him back and re-doing 8th grade in America to make the transition easier. I worry that, as a bright kid, he would be bored to tears.

I realize English skills will be an issue but he and the mother both speak some English already and I will have them both in English as a Second Language (ESL) classes as soon as they come to Oregon. He will have had 2 months of immersion in language and culture (including two new older sisters--heaven help the boy!) before schools starts in September.

Anybody have any thoughts/experience with this issue?

Spasibo!

We do. Our son was 13 and in 8th grade in Ukraine when he came. He started in 8th grade here. Until about grade 11, the systems are equal, basically, in age/grade level.

He spoke only limited English, having had 9 months of tutoring before coming and some exposure from Mom and Older brother who speak English very well. He will likely be in an ESL program to begin with which means some regular classes and some classes with an ESL teacher. Our son was promoted to 10th grade 3 months after arriving as he was so far advanced in what he had covered in school. While Ukraine has the same age/grade relation, what they are taught in school is accelerated. He is now 15 and in his 3rd year level of high school, getting A's, and is no longer in any "special" Englsh education class, he took ESl classes for the first year only, just normal classes which include English, of course. He tested out of the first year level. He should graduate high school next year at age 16. This is also when Ukrainian students graduate high school.

He now speaks English very well, with much less accent than Alla, and speaks more like a teenager than correct and proper English like Alla speaks. He knows all the slang, sports talk, snowboard talk, and idioms which Alla does not. In short..he speaks like an American teenager, rather than "english" He will say "Dude...get a grip" Which may as well be Swahili for Alla.

Your fiancee can be in contact with the local schools now so they are all prepared for him.

[Martyshk 137]

Ukranians graduate at 17, Gary.

Casper: He should definitely start at the 9th grade here.

[Casper&Diana 0]

Gnarly, Dude! Ah, thank you all. I thought that an age-appropriate 9th grade start would be best. His mother is worried for him. I am not. As I said, he is a bright lad. I suspect that in math and science he will probably be ahead of his 9th grade peers and behind in English Lit and US History but I'm confident he will quickly catch up where needed and excel in all subjects thereafter.

I currently serve on the advisory board to the high school and have already spoken with the principal. She said they will test him in August before classes start and then put him in appropriate clases. Some may be with English learners, some not.

Gary, I expect to see the same thing you have. For now Diana's English skills are better than Denys' but already his accent is much less. In 1-2 years I doubt you will be able to tell he wasn't born here. I hope Diana never stops rolling her "r's" though, I like it!

[payxibka 10,045]

From my experience, it is far better to get them in with there own age group. The social adjustment was much more important (and difficult) for my son in the first year than the academics.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gnarly, Dude! Ah, thank you all. I thought that an age-appropriate 9th grade start would be best. His mother is worried for him. I am not. As I said, he is a bright lad. I suspect that in math and science he will probably be ahead of his 9th grade peers and behind in English Lit and US History but I'm confident he will quickly catch up where needed and excel in all subjects thereafter.

I currently serve on the advisory board to the high school and have already spoken with the principal. She said they will test him in August before classes start and then put him in appropriate clases. Some may be with English learners, some not.

Gary, I expect to see the same thing you have. For now Diana's English skills are better than Denys' but already his accent is much less. In 1-2 years I doubt you will be able to tell he wasn't born here. I hope Diana never stops rolling her "r's" though, I like it!

Definitely start him in his age appropriate grade. Check with his teachers in 1-2 months if they don't check with you first. If he seems advanced have them take the exams for the next level up and go from there.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

From my experience, it is far better to get them in with there own age group. The social adjustment was much more important (and difficult) for my son in the first year than the academics.

There is something to be said for that at younger ages Pay, but at 14 he will be in in 9th or 10th or 11th grade...all high school and all mixed up classes. Pasha is, academically. in his third year of high school but he has classes with freshman-seniors, plays sports with freshmen to seniors. At the high school level, they are really all in the same age group.

Some kids handle it better than others. Pasha was very popular, first at the junior high and then at the high school. He was somthing of a novelty and is still quite "popular". He is the extroverted/sports guy/girl chaser/ type. His older brother is the quiet geek type. Both good kids. The tendency seems to be for the foreign kids to be at least temporarily popular, which may or may not be welcome to the kid.

Ukranians graduate at 17, Gary.

Casper: He should definitely start at the 9th grade here.

I will let Alla and Sergey know they were 17, NOT 16 when they graduated.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gnarly, Dude! Ah, thank you all. I thought that an age-appropriate 9th grade start would be best. His mother is worried for him. I am not. As I said, he is a bright lad. I suspect that in math and science he will probably be ahead of his 9th grade peers and behind in English Lit and US History but I'm confident he will quickly catch up where needed and excel in all subjects thereafter.

I currently serve on the advisory board to the high school and have already spoken with the principal. She said they will test him in August before classes start and then put him in appropriate clases. Some may be with English learners, some not.

Gary, I expect to see the same thing you have. For now Diana's English skills are better than Denys' but already his accent is much less. In 1-2 years I doubt you will be able to tell he wasn't born here. I hope Diana never stops rolling her "r's" though, I like it!

Pasha thinks the schools here are "much better" than Ukraine, Alla does not agree. Alla thinks they are "too easy". Pasha thinks they are "awesome" and/or "intense". Plus, in Ukraine, all the kids had to stay after school and clean the school! They had nothing in the way of sports or activities other than strict education. Here he has had kayaking, rock climbing, mountain biking, ski club, basketball team, lacross team, swimming...None of which impresses Alla. Alla is of the old Hammer and Sickle type for education, emphasis on hammer. She DOES go to his sports games. But he does good and has fun also.

[Terry&Tigger 4]

American public high school programs are very much weaker than Ukranian or Russian ones. So, enroll your son into grade 9 and be ready for a possible 'upgrade' after he gets his English improved.

[eekee 182]

In Russia and Ukraine, the school ends at the age-level equivalent of junior year in the US. So like in America, some people will end the school year already having turned 17, and some will be 16.

[Martyshk 137]

I will let Alla and Sergey know they were 17, NOT 16 when they graduated.

Gary, if you stop being a pretentious know-it-all for a minute, you will realize that generalizations (such as "all Ukranians graduate at 16") cannot be made on bases of Alla and Sergey.

Here's some math for you.

Start school at 7. 10 grades of school.

I started at 6, so I graduated at 16 and 3 months. But MOST of the population starts at 7 and graduates at 17.

[Oksana81 0]

Gary, if you stop being a pretentious know-it-all for a minute, you will realize that generalizations (such as "all Ukranians graduate at 16") cannot be made on bases of Alla and Sergey.

Here's some math for you.

Start school at 7. 10 grades of school.

I started at 6, so I graduated at 16 and 3 months. But MOST of the population starts at 7 and graduates at 17.

I agree with Martyshk.

Casper, your step-son should definitely start the 9th grade.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

American public high school programs are very much weaker than Ukranian or Russian ones. So, enroll your son into grade 9 and be ready for a possible 'upgrade' after he gets his English improved.

Very true from what I have seen. If we could improve our English instruction a little bit, American kids will speak English as well as Russian kids.

The same goes for college education. Russian college education is intense, even unreasonably so in my opinion. We have found the administration at Sergey's school to be very ridgid and very reluctant to budge on any concessions regarding missing a class or an exam. It just isn't acceptable. In Alla's college courses here, they give her an email address to report if they are going to miss class. What? Miss class? We can miss class and just send an email? We will not be beaten, shot in the eye, forced to dig coal? (OK, I exaggerate a bit)

Casper, I think your fiancee can expect that if her son was doing well in Ukraine, he will do well here. It is normal for her to be nervous, Alla was, I would be. But I think his chances are none the worse than an American kid who changes school. Personalities are individual of course, but the language seems to come much easier to the younger ones, especially when they have no choice. Be prepared to help him with his homeworkk for a time. I spent 2-3 hours every night with Pasha for a few months with his homework (it takes longer than normal) But it is an excellent time for you to gain his trust and respect.

Your new family members will need a lot from you, it is part of the deal, but it can be very enjoyable and worthwhile. What else are you doing that is better than helping a kid to adjust and get educated? OK, I admit...fishing WAS better, but still.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ukranians graduate at 17, Gary.

Mart

I am a "pretentious know-it-all" for saying they graduate at 16, but you are NOT a pretentious know-it-all" for saying they graduate at 17? (when you even graduated yourself at 16)If you will read the post in which I made the statement, you will see I actually contributed a lot more to the answer than the graduation age. Because I can. The graduation age was added as an aside, not as the main topic of the post(s), or the only topic.

Thank you for proving my point.

Now if you will address things that help the OP rather than play a game of "can I prove Gary is wrong?" For example, you could relate your experience with being the parent of a Ukrainian kid (or two) and how you helped them in their education and adjustment in the US. Maybe how you taught them to drive a car, replace windows, fix cars, drive a tractor, shoot guns, go fishing, unsnag a lure from a stump in the lake, fill out a job application, run a small business for themselves, paimt their room, cheer them on at a game, take them skiing, I don't know, just stupid stuff like that. I know it is not as important as proving Gary wrong on the age of graduation in Ukraine and other topics of earth shaking importance to the OP, but c'mon, give it try.

I am sure the OP is relieved to know that I was just generalizing (and you weren't) when I said kids in Ukraine graduate at 16.

Now some people will judge me as an arrogant SOB because of my response when I have taken the time to respond to the OP as best I can with my experience in the issue which concerns him/her and you will be the "good guy" for your cheery picked, microscopic review review of Gary's contribution and worhtwhile revelation that Gary was being a pretentious know-it-all and that only SOME Ukrainians graduate at age 16. It is a topsy turvy world! Oh well, Better an arrogant SOB capable of heloing young people immigrating from other countries, than nit picking other contributors posts for partially accurate (but totally irrelevent) information.

Really, can you explain why you thought it was necessary to parachute into a thread just to start BS with another member? Did you expect the other member will slink away at shrink at the glowing wisdom spewed forth and the detailed explanation of the graduation age age in Ukraine.

The incredible, astounding, just totally in-your-face thing is that YOU moved here when YOU were in school (or so you say) and could have contributed your OWN first hand experience in response to the OPs question without ever reading what Gary said, and instead CHOSE to nit-pick Gary on an irrelevent item. TWICE. Oh well, that is what makes it the RUB forum, eh?

I agree with Martyshk.

Casper, your step-son should definitely start the 9th grade.

Has ANYONE suggested otherwise? Anyone? Thank you to Mart for his in depth first hand experience.