I-864: How important?

[cjgator 2]

Hello, all..

Most VJ members and those bringing a loved one in from outside the US know that the most difficult of all standards that we US Citizens must adhere to are the standards in the I-864, which may allow our international loved-one to draw money from us, even if we divorce, for a period of time that may equate to a lifetime. The federal standards are much less restrictive than the state standards for alimony.

I sent my wife's I-485 in, with all documents, except the I-864. I said in my cover letter that I was not sending in an I-864 because I rejected the guidelines that required spousal support, for 10 or more years, even a lifetime, in the event of a divorce, because it was excessive relative to the guidelines that state courts set for alimony.

For those of you who are concerned that your international spouses may be using you for a visa, this may (and I stress may) be good news.

USCIS did not reject our application, and we are scheduled for an interview. I will let you know how it goes.

-CJ

[Bernie C 24]

For those of you who are concerned that your international spouses may be using you for a visa

If this is a concern - get a divorce.

Trust is a must.

[cjgator 2]

Obviously you live in a dream world. This is no different than searching for a pre-nup. There are countless cases of those who "change" right after they get their green card. Protecting oneself is not a crime, it is smart thinking, and if more people pursued this path, it would keep our family courts a lot less clogged than they are.

_C

If this is a concern - get a divorce.

Trust is a must.

[Nik+Heather 121]

When is your interview? I'm curious about how that will go and will be looking for your review.

[cjgator 2]

Nik/Heather:

It's July 13. I will definitely keep you informed. I need to update our timeline, which I will do this week.

-C

When is your interview? I'm curious about how that will go and will be looking for your review.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I will be eternally confused if you are granted sans I-864.

Did you do a I-134 or I-864 for the K3 process? (I understand it differs between countries).

if you signed a I-864 then that will carry over to the AOS process so they don't need one. If you didn't then if you're approved it's because they missed it. It's likely you'll get RFE'd for it between now and then, or even at the interview itself.

I look forward to your review.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

You might want to read over this information from the Immigration and Naturalization Act before you decide if you wish to continue to refuse to provide an Affidavit of Support:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.f6da51a2342135be7e9d7a10e0dc91a0/?vgnextoid=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&CH=act

and section 4 of Excludable Aliens: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.f6da51a2342135be7e9d7a10e0dc91a0/?vgnextoid=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&CH=act

specifically section C:

© Family-Sponsored immigrants.-Any alien who seeks admission or adjustment of status under a visa issued under section 201(b)(2) or 203(a) is excludable under this paragraph unless-

(ii) the person petitioning for the alien's admission 6a/ (and any additional sponsor required under section 213A(f) or any alternative sponsor permitted under paragraph (5)(B) of such section) has executed an affidavit of support described in section 213A with respect to such alien.

I strongly suspect you will be requested to provide the Affidavit of Support at the interview, if not before, and if you fail to do so, the application will be denied.

[trillium13 84]

I'll be curious to see how this goes. It's always been my understanding that the I-864 doesn't mean you have to pay spousal support per se-just that the US government can come after you should your spouse acquire any means tested benefits. I thought that spousal support would be a matter for family courts.

If someone is worrying about being scammed, it seems to me like it would make more sense to get a pre-nup.

[Monday Jones 6]

My interview letter says to bring the form I-864 with all required evidence. Does yours not state this?

[Moonandstar 6]

Wow, although i like your methods, remember who you are dealing with: these are drones who live and breathe the law- and as soon they see you dont qualify, they stop thinking. They cant (99% of the time) be negotiated with.

And yea, what about the 134? Apparently you didn't refuse to fill that one out (given its not legally binding), but please do let us know how it goes! (but i would be prepared to end up filing a 864 if you really plan to get the green card)

Here's hoping this is the other 1% of the time!

Edited May 26, 2010 by Moonandstar

[Kittyfang 6]

I personally feel very sad for anyone who is willing to share their life with someone who thinks trust is a fairy tale.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Kittyfang

[Bernie C 24]

Obviously you live in a dream world. This is no different than searching for a pre-nup. There are countless cases of those who "change" right after they get their green card. Protecting oneself is not a crime, it is smart thinking, and if more people pursued this path, it would keep our family courts a lot less clogged than they are.

_C

On the contrary - you are the one living in a dream world. You are dealing with immigration law and not civil law.

Actually it does nothing to "unclog" our family courts. Just makes the cases longer. Do some research on pre-nups - they are challenged and overriden on a regular basis. All it takes is more money and a good lawyer. However I doubt you have the time and money to challenge the I-864.

Yes there are countless cases of people who change right after they get their green card. All I am saying is if you are concerned about this you are walking down the wrong path. It should not be a concern.

And I am living in a dream world, a world of happiness and love with my immigrant wife.

It certainly is an interesting topic though. Got to love a good debate and I can see this one getting lots of attention!

More importantly than this debate and our personal opinions: I wish you the very best and hope everything works out for the best in your marriage and your case and you have a long and wonderful life together with no worries.

[Starburst 4]

I will be very surprised if the application is approved without one.

You should be subjected to all the same rules and regulations as the rest of us. Why should your wife become a public charge if you get divorced? You chose to bring her here, and thus you should pay for an acceptable amount of time to ensure that the rest of us Taxpayers do not have to. Why should we have to pay for it because it doesn't work out for you?

frankly I think it's a little selfish to not take the responsibility.

I understand that some people get used, but then that's up to you to prove to them that was the reason, and they will be deported.

anyways I'll be interested in hearing what happens

/starburst

Edited May 26, 2010 by Starburst

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Hello, all..

Most VJ members and those bringing a loved one in from outside the US know that the most difficult of all standards that we US Citizens must adhere to are the standards in the I-864, which may allow our international loved-one to draw money from us, even if we divorce, for a period of time that may equate to a lifetime. The federal standards are much less restrictive than the state standards for alimony.

I sent my wife's I-485 in, with all documents, except the I-864. I said in my cover letter that I was not sending in an I-864 because I rejected the guidelines that required spousal support, for 10 or more years, even a lifetime, in the event of a divorce, because it was excessive relative to the guidelines that state courts set for alimony.

For those of you who are concerned that your international spouses may be using you for a visa, this may (and I stress may) be good news.

USCIS did not reject our application, and we are scheduled for an interview. I will let you know how it goes.

-CJ

The public charge determination is at the discretion of the consulate when issuing a visa, and USCIS when adjudicating an adjustment of status application. Strictly speaking, 212(a)(4) doesn't absolutely require USCIS to get an affidavit of support from a sponsor. However, if they do require it, then section 213A spells out the requirements for the affidavit itself.

In other words, the adjudicator actually has it within his discretion to grant the AOS without the affidavit. He's not bound by law to require it. However, if he does actually grant the AOS without an affidavit then it certainly isn't because you decided to put your foot down and refuse to submit it, but because he felt there was virtually zero chance your wife would ever become a public charge. Your letter stating that you shouldn't be required to support your wife after divorce, using federal guidelines and potentially for life, is not going to instill them with much confidence. Your basically saying you don't think it's fair for you to assume this risk, so you want the taxpayers of the US to assume it instead.

This has nothing to do with spousal support. If you married and divorced a US citizen, the family court might order you to pay spousal support for a fixed period of time, generally long enough for your ex-wife to get on her feet and reenter the workforce. If she still couldn't support herself after that then she'd no longer be your problem, but she could get assistance from the government if she qualified, at the expense of the taxpayers. This is precisely what the affidavit of support is meant to prevent. The law protects the taxpayers from being stuck with the check in the event a US citizen gets involved in a bad relationship with a foreigner. The same rules apply to anyone sponsoring an immigrant, including family members and employers.

I'm mildly curious to see how this turns out, but I'm pretty certain they're going to require you to sign an I-864 or they'll refuse to issue the green card.

Good luck!

[Kittyfang 6]

The public charge determination is at the discretion of the consulate when issuing a visa, and USCIS when adjudicating an adjustment of status application. Strictly speaking, 212(a)(4) doesn't absolutely require USCIS to get an affidavit of support from a sponsor. However, if they do require it, then section 213A spells out the requirements for the affidavit itself.

In other words, the adjudicator actually has it within his discretion to grant the AOS without the affidavit. He's not bound by law to require it. However, if he does actually grant the AOS without an affidavit then it certainly isn't because you decided to put your foot down and refuse to submit it, but because he felt there was virtually zero chance your wife would ever become a public charge. Your letter stating that you shouldn't be required to support your wife after divorce, using federal guidelines and potentially for life, is not going to instill them with much confidence. Your basically saying you don't think it's fair for you to assume this risk, so you want the taxpayers of the US to assume it instead.

This has nothing to do with spousal support. If you married and divorced a US citizen, the family court might order you to pay spousal support for a fixed period of time, generally long enough for your ex-wife to get on her feet and reenter the workforce. If she still couldn't support herself after that then she'd no longer be your problem, but she could get assistance from the government if she qualified, at the expense of the taxpayers. This is precisely what the affidavit of support is meant to prevent. The law protects the taxpayers from being stuck with the check in the event a US citizen gets involved in a bad relationship with a foreigner. The same rules apply to anyone sponsoring an immigrant, including family members and employers.

I'm mildly curious to see how this turns out, but I'm pretty certain they're going to require you to sign an I-864 or they'll refuse to issue the green card.

Good luck!

I'm no expert, by all means, but if he did send out a letter explaining why he shouldn't file an I-864 and giving the example of the divorce, wouldn't that raise some kind of small red flag? I mean, before I got married, I never thought about divorce. I'm no good example by all means, but it just seems weird to me.