TV Commercial To Air In The UK On Where To Get An Abortion.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

So "choice" is limited only to woman, somehow that reeks of sexism.

remember that in this backwards society, 'sexism' is only against women, and 'racism' is only against non-whites.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If the man doesn't want to have the child that should be his right, if woman also get the right to choose. So the woman wants the child. The man signs his rights away. The woman still gets her choice, however she must rebalance her decision knowing she will be going it alone. Seems perfectly fair.

It seems fair until you consider the fact (and it is a fact) that if the woman isn't financially able to keep a child on the money that she makes herself and isn't able to supplement it via support payments from the child's father, then the shortfall will likely come out the welfare system.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I don't really see that as equivalent, and I'll explain why. Both parties engage in the sexual act knowing the potential consequences and they should both mitigate against consequences that they are not prepared to deal with. However, even with the best planning, accidents can occur. If the consequences of that accidental occurrence are unequal, then the responsiblities of that occurence are also unequal. The man does not face equal consequences in terms of the actuality of pregnancy, it is woman's life that experiences the greatest upheaval and it is her body that undergoes the life altering (and sometimes life threatening) changes, and it is more often or not her career that is put on hold or cut off if a pregnancy occurs so the choices as to what should be done once the pregnancy occurs really are not equally distributed - and this becomes ever more problematic dependent on the level of commitment between the adults who engaged in the sexual act.

Personally, I think it's ludicrous to expect a man to have the final decision as to what should happen in the event of disagreement over a pregnancy, and as thing stands, so does the court system.

so in all equality here of an unequal circumstance, a man should not have to care for a child that is born for any longer than a 9 month period after it takes its first breath.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

remember that in this backwards society, 'sexism' is only against women, and 'racism' is only against non-whites.

Don't be a prat.

[_Simpson_ 250]

How about we have consequences for both, instead of just words (owning up) for one and consequences for the other!

I said men and woman.

You are not affected by my decisions. If I choose to keep or abort a baby I made, I am the one who pays for the consequences. Not you. You just get the right to your opinion, which is meaningless to me in this case.

Does it directly affect me, no. A lot of crimes dont directly affect me, this should be a crime but you people want to get off on a technicality.

You're not the voice of unborn babies, you are the voice of yourself. If I ever have to make such a decision and there's a life after this one then I will answer to them there. It's still nothing to do with you or anyone at all that shares your opinion.

As the law sands now all I have is a opinion but me and others will fight to right this wrong. Hopefully someday it will be you with just a opinion.

How is it that you gloss over the fact that the baby suffers the most, not you? Abortion is a very selfish thing thing to do, put it up for adoption if you dont want to 'suffer' the consequences. To most a child is a blessing, I would suggest you pro-choice people bless another family by putting it up for adoption instead of throwing it away like its a piece of garbage.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

so in all equality here of an unequal circumstance, a man should not have to care for a child that is born for any longer than a 9 month period after it takes its first breath.

The circumstances are unequal, but in my scenario the decision making is still in favor of the woman. If the man wants the child and the woman doesn't he's out of luck.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Simpson, you act as though adoption, foster and social care are somehow idyllic solutions. They very much aren't.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

The circumstances are unequal, but in my scenario the decision making is still in favor of the woman. If the man wants the child and the woman doesn't he's out of luck.

Until they figure out a way to make a man able to carry an embryo, then it's going to be this way.

Knowing science and our inability to leave is alone (no matter what the consequences) we will one day be able to take a fertilized embryo from a woman and place it into a man with the right drugs/hormones, etc....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Until they figure out a way to make a man able to carry an embryo, then it's going to be this way.

Knowing science and our inability to leave is alone (no matter what the consequences) we will one day be able to take a fertilized embryo from a woman and place it into a man with the right drugs/hormones, etc....

It's more feasible that you'll be able to turn yourself into a woman at the biological level, than to have embryos somehow implanted into men's bodies - but its still very much science fiction.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Until they figure out a way to make a man able to carry an embryo, then it's going to be this way.

Knowing science and our inability to leave is alone (no matter what the consequences) we will one day be able to take a fertilized embryo from a woman and place it into a man with the right drugs/hormones, etc....

I think there will synthetic wombs in climate controlled labs. I'm sure woman would love that! No hormones, extra weight, pain etc.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Sousuke

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think there will synthetic wombs in climate controlled labs. I'm sure woman would love that! No hormones, extra weight, paint etc.

Sounds a lot like cloning and that kind of research is heavily restricted.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Sounds a lot like cloning and that kind of research is heavily restricted.

as it should be!

You saw what happened in Episode II!!!

Edited May 25, 2010 by Paul and Vanessa

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Sounds a lot like cloning and that kind of research is heavily restricted.

cloning is an absolute copy at the dna level. i'm talking about developing an embryo from an extracted egg and sperm, though your right we'll have to get through an old congress.

[Peikko 1,575]

So "choice" is limited only to woman, somehow that reeks of sexism.

How so? The choice is first made with the act of sex. A man knows the consequences of that and has a choice to go ahead or take precautions if he does not want a resultant pregnancy, and it is in his hands to prevent pregnancy completely if he so chooses with a vasectomy.

Once the decision to have sex has been made, the choices change completely. If both a man and a woman have recreational sex and a pregnancy occurs, because of or despite the precautions made then the choice as to whether to continue that pregnancy has completely different consequences on the man and the woman and it is those differences that drive the ultimate decision making. Remember again that the man must want to be involved in the decision making process, most don't if it's an 'accident' from casual sex but if they are involved, then the woman does have the option and responsibility to take his choices into consideration but ultimately, the fact that the woman get's the final say is a result of the unequal circumstances of being a father and a mother, not because society has decided to be unfair on men.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

cloning is an absolute copy at the dna level. i'm talking about developing an embryo from an extracted egg and sperm, though your right we'll have to get through an old congress.

What you are talking about has very similar ethical considerations to cloning.