TV Commercial To Air In The UK On Where To Get An Abortion.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Informed decision no, I think whats important is that they make the right decision. Extreme cases aside, abortion will never be the right decision.

So you'd rather women be ordered to carry a pregnancy to term, rather than make the right choice for them?

Personal responsibilty is about the individual using their own judgment, not having things imposed on them by force.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course on the other side of the coin, men have no choice and are expected to pay child support even if they didn't want a child.

Men can't get pregnant either.... The issues involved in reproductive rights are not simple or clear cut. Nor should they be.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Men can't get pregnant either.... The issues involved in reproductive rights are not simple or clear cut. Nor should they be.

Well I'm squarely in the pro-life camp but....if people are really being honest about choice, there should be a law that allows the father to sign away his rights if a mother chooses to keep a child and he doesn't want her to, its only fair.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Sousuke

[_Simpson_ 250]

I vote for getting the accidental daddy baby makers fixed so if there's consequences for them, they will think twice about their actions! And no repeat performances to boot until they get reversed. That sounds like doing the right thing to me.

How about woman and men own up to there actions when they have sex!

I've about had it with American commercials telling me if I get pregnant unexpectedly they can help me, impartially (hmph!), with "choices I can live with". It's funny how people go on and on and on about getting government interference out of their lives, power to the individual but these same people ready to tell me in a heart beat what I can and can't do with my body.

If only you were the only one that would be affected by this decision. Two parties are involved and no sort of this is my body argument is going to take that away. Its like you want to get away with this on a technicality,'but but but its my body'. Im not referring to extreme cases like when the mothers life is danger.

Society has always protected the innocent and I dont think that should stop at the doors of the local abortion clinic. I tell you what, you ask the baby 10 years down the road if she wished mom would've had a abortion and I bet you she will say no. So just consider me and other pro-lifers the voice for the unborn babies.

Edited May 25, 2010 by _Simpson_

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How about woman and men own up to there actions when they have sex!

Erm... I think most people are aware of what they are doing when they have sex...

If only you were the only one that would be affected by this decision. Two parties are involved and no sort of this is my body argument is going to take that away. Its like you want to get away with this on a technicality,'but but but its my body'. Im not referring to extreme cases like when the mothers life is danger.

Society has always protected the innocent and I dont think that should stop at the doors of the local abortion clinic. I tell you what, you ask the baby 10 years down the road if she wished mom would've had a abortion and I bet you she will say no. So just consider me and other pro-lifers the voice for the unborn babies.

No dude, you don't have the right to dictate to someone to carry a pregnancy to term just to validate your own warped sense of social justice.

Your concern might not stop at the doors of the abortion clinic, but it seems to stop at the point the child is born and appear to have little regard for the upbringing and welfare of a child that would be brought up in care.

[KaiserD 12]

The abortion issue is an uncrossable canyon. On one side, the rights of the mother are more important, on the other side the childs. Neither side can agree on a definition of when human life begins and therefore neither can agree when human rights come into play. The only aspect that both sides agree on is that less abortions should occur.

Your point is completely legitimate, only you know there's more to it than that. Christianity's past was a convenient tool to control others by, so controlling women by means of babies is nowhere near the problem now as it was then but we're still left with the stigma of she should have known not to open her legs, she needs to take care of it, if she can't get an education together now it's her fault. At the same time we surround girls barely more than kids with a media saturated in exerting an influence as much as humanly possible to surrender their sexual dignity, because it's cool and because she'll be accepted.

As for the actual issue itself, it's definitely something has their own opinion on. For me the biggest shocker is purely how late an abortion can still be carried out. If someone feels they have to have an abortion then its better for everyone involved to get it over with as soon as possible, when a pregnancy gets to the point where they can remove the baby early as necessary and keep it alive...that is very questionable ethics.

Well I'm squarely in the pro-life camp but....if people are really being honest about choice, there should be a law that allows the father to sign away his rights if a mother chooses to keep a child and he doesn't want her to, its only fair.

Totally agree.

The other thing that bothers me, the "you have no right to have an abortion" camp, that's also part of the "why should I have national healthcare that pays for your damn kids" camp. You have the right to life, but I don't give a rat's a$$ if you live an absolutely miserable existence once you get here and die because your family can't pay for the life saving care you need. Too bad, life's hard you know?

Meh.

How about woman and men own up to there actions when they have sex!

How about we have consequences for both, instead of just words (owning up) for one and consequences for the other!

If only you were the only one that would be affected by this decision. Two parties are involved and no sort of this is my body argument is going to take that away. Its like you want to get away with this on a technicality,'but but but its my body'. Im not referring to extreme cases like when the mothers life is danger.

You are not affected by my decisions. If I choose to keep or abort a baby I made, I am the one who pays for the consequences. Not you. You just get the right to your opinion, which is meaningless to me in this case.

Society has always protected the innocent and I dont think that should stop at the doors of the local abortion clinic. I tell you what, you ask the baby 10 years down the road if she wished mom would've had a abortion and I bet you she will say no. So just consider me and other pro-lifers the voice for the unborn babies.

You're not the voice of unborn babies, you are the voice of yourself. If I ever have to make such a decision and there's a life after this one then I will answer to them there. It's still nothing to do with you or anyone at all that shares your opinion.

[_Simpson_ 250]

The right decision being one that conforms to your prejudice, not what is right for the individual involved of course.

Which individual are you talking about? I know you want to hang your hat on the "its part of my body' argument but thats nothing more than a technicality. Its two hearts and two different lives. Society tries to protect the innocent and this should be no different.

That's the point about 'choice'. The choice is entirely that of the women who is pregnant, which is as it should be. Women should not be held solely responsible for the consequences of the decision to have recreational sex. If you think they should be, then you are one sick individual or perhaps you believe that sex is not a recreational activity?

No one is saying that just the woman needs to be held accountable. Men should and usually are, child support.

Of course sex isnt just about having babies but its no secret what could happen when your participating in this recreational activity. The baby shouldn't be held accountable for your mistake, Bob and Jill need to own up and do the right thing.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Which individual are you talking about? I know you want to hang your hat on the "its part of my body' argument but thats nothing more than a technicality. Its two hearts and two different lives. Society tries to protect the innocent and this should be no different.

No no no no no. No it isn't. Absolutely not, no. The vast majority of fetuses are aborted before the point at which they would be viable outside of the mother's body and biological processes.

You have a right to your opinion. You have zero right to dictate to other people what to do with their own bodies.

The baby shouldn't be held accountable for your mistake, Bob and Jill need to own up and do the right thing.

So should you - namely fvcking off out of other people's business.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Erm... I think most people are aware of what they are doing when they have sex...

Of course they are aware and need to own up to there actions and quit making the babies pay the price.

No dude, you don't have the right to dictate to someone to carry a pregnancy to term just to validate your own warped sense of social justice.

Of course I dont thanks to Roe vs Wade. Crack open a law book, we dicate a lot of things through our laws.

Your concern might not stop at the doors of the abortion clinic, but it seems to stop at the point the child is born and appear to have little regard for the upbringing and welfare of a child that would be brought up in care.

Wait wait wait, you just told me that you thought speculating was stupid. Why do you choose not to run into the wall on this issue?

Are you trying to make the argument that people who grow up 'without' have less of a right to live? Thats a slippery slope your trying to go down.

[Peikko 1,575]

Of course on the other side of the coin, men have no choice and are expected to pay child support even if they didn't want a child.

I don't really see that as equivalent, and I'll explain why. Both parties engage in the sexual act knowing the potential consequences and they should both mitigate against consequences that they are not prepared to deal with. However, even with the best planning, accidents can occur. If the consequences of that accidental occurrence are unequal, then the responsiblities of that occurence are also unequal. The man does not face equal consequences in terms of the actuality of pregnancy, it is woman's life that experiences the greatest upheaval and it is her body that undergoes the life altering (and sometimes life threatening) changes, and it is more often or not her career that is put on hold or cut off if a pregnancy occurs so the choices as to what should be done once the pregnancy occurs really are not equally distributed - and this becomes ever more problematic dependent on the level of commitment between the adults who engaged in the sexual act.

Personally, I think it's ludicrous to expect a man to have the final decision as to what should happen in the event of disagreement over a pregnancy, and as thing stands, so does the court system.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course they are aware and need to own up to there actions and quit making the babies pay the price.

So some teenagers who have sex and get pregnant accidentally - should be forced to carry the can (along with a baby that they don't want) for the rest of their lives?

Of course I dont thanks to Roe vs Wade. Crack open a law book, we dicate a lot of things through our laws.

Roe Vs. Wade is entirely irrelevant to the laws of the United Kingdom (which the OP specifically relates to).

Wait wait wait, you just told me that you thought speculating was stupid. Why do you choose not to run into the wall on this issue?

Are you trying to make the argument that people who grow up 'without' have less of a right to live? Thats a slippery slope your trying to go down.

I am saying Simpson (if you can get this into your narrow mind) that you seem to have little interest in the practical realities of bringing up all these unwanted children.

Not that you really need to speculate very hard to imagine that someone has to bring up the child, pay for its upbringing and education. What do you think - as soon as the child pops out it's raised by pixies and fairies!?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I don't really see that as equivalent, and I'll explain why. Both parties engage in the sexual act knowing the potential consequences and they should both mitigate against consequences that they are not prepared to deal with. However, even with the best planning, accidents can occur. If the consequences of that accidental occurrence are unequal, then the responsiblities of that occurence are also unequal. The man does not face equal consequences in terms of the actuality of pregnancy, it is woman's life that experiences the greatest upheaval and it is her body that undergoes the life altering (and sometimes life threatening) changes, and it is more often or not her career that is put on hold or cut off if a pregnancy occurs so the choices as to what should be done once the pregnancy occurs really are not equally distributed - and this becomes ever more problematic dependent on the level of commitment between the adults who engaged in the sexual act.

Personally, I think it's ludicrous to expect a man to have the final decision as to what should happen in the event of disagreement over a pregnancy, and as thing stands, so does the court system.

So "choice" is limited only to woman, somehow that reeks of sexism.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So "choice" is limited only to woman, somehow that reeks of sexism.

Perhaps.... If it's sexist that men can't get pregnant.

[KaiserD 12]

I don't really see that as equivalent, and I'll explain why. Both parties engage in the sexual act knowing the potential consequences and they should both mitigate against consequences that they are not prepared to deal with. However, even with the best planning, accidents can occur. If the consequences of that accidental occurrence are unequal, then the responsiblities of that occurence are also unequal. The man does not face equal consequences in terms of the actuality of pregnancy, it is woman's life that experiences the greatest upheaval and it is her body that undergoes the life altering (and sometimes life threatening) changes, and it is more often or not her career that is put on hold or cut off if a pregnancy occurs so the choices as to what should be done once the pregnancy occurs really are not equally distributed - and this becomes ever more problematic dependent on the level of commitment between the adults who engaged in the sexual act.

If a man doesn't want to continue with a pregnancy and would opt for an abortion, but she is determined to carry to term because she wants to, or she believes it's the right thing to do it doesn't really seem fair to chain him to the responsibility of it where abortion is accessible.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Perhaps.... If it's sexist that men can't get pregnant.

If the man doesn't want to have the child that should be his right, if woman also get the right to choose. So the woman wants the child. The man signs his rights away. The woman still gets her choice, however she must rebalance her decision knowing she will be going it alone. Seems perfectly fair.