Is Testing And Making Sure People Are Qualified Really Racism?

[Jenn! 918]

Meh, aside from the "victims" themselves the people that get the most 'up in arms' about these things seem to be the ones that use it to go on anti-affirmative action and "reverse discrimination" tirades.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I think Jenn made the key point here. Did management change the cut score before or after seeing the names tied to scores.

If they did it before (blindly), its a non issue. If they did after, then they have a case.

[Peikko 1,575]

I very much doubt that it was a 'deliberate' policy, but if it can be shown that they knew that the candidates who got interviews were predominantly white (which they did) and didn't make an effort to ensure there wasn't some discrimination at play, then of course they would be culpable by negligence - although legally I am not sure how that plays out.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Meh, aside from the "victims" themselves the people that get the most 'up in arms' about these things seem to be the ones that use it to go on anti-affirmative action and "reverse discrimination" tirades.

you see what you want to see.

[Heracles 417]

It's really not a colour thing as much as an economic class thing. In poorer areas there's a mentality that "why should I bother", that having an education means pretty little and they don't see how exams and studying = jobs and money. So I'm not even going to pretend that everyone wants to learn because there is definitely an unhelpful culture at play.

However poor schools in poor areas are still cr!ptastic. I live in a suburb but I really REALLY don't want my son to go to school here, I've seen the quality of them around here, teachers, equipment, grades (my USC husband has much younger sister + cousins) and it makes me want to run back to my village in the middle of nowhere (it makes my clearly average education look stellar). The schools in Runcorn, UK were no better, there was this little fact sheet I picked up in the Job Center in Halton BC with the GCSE rates that were absolutely abysmal.

I said something to this effect before, still don't know the best way to reverse such a catch 22. Can't teach kids with bad resources, good resources won't make much difference on kids who don't want to learn, schools turning out kids with bad grades are not gonna get as much funding anyways.

Who said anything about color? In reality, it's about culture. Some of the poorest areas in America (not all) receive more funding per student than the wealthiest, yet still do not perform anywhere near that of others.

[Jenn! 918]

you see what you want to see.

but you don't?

[Heracles 417]

Meh, aside from the "victims" themselves the people that get the most 'up in arms' about these things seem to be the ones that use it to go on anti-affirmative action and "reverse discrimination" tirades.

Riiiight because racism and discrimination only occurs one way, from White to Black. Never ever the other way around.

Interestingly enough, that point of view is racist in-itself.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Booyah!

[SMOKE 1,426]

Meh, aside from the "victims" themselves the people that get the most 'up in arms' about these things seem to be the ones that use it to go on anti-affirmative action and "reverse discrimination" tirades.

please. lowering the bar for ethnic groups (or not taking the best applicants) for a life & death job is good thing?

Edited May 24, 2010 by SMOKE

[Jenn! 918]

I think Jenn made the key point here. Did management change the cut score before or after seeing the names tied to scores.

If they did it before (blindly), its a non issue. If they did after, then they have a case.

I suspect that they will get to the bottom of it in court.

please. lowering the bar for ethnic groups for a life & death job is good thing?

And where did I say that?

Riiiight because racism and discrimination only occurs works one way, from white to Black. Never ever the other way around.

Interestingly enough, that point of view is racist in-itself.

I rest my case.

[_Simpson_ 250]

They're not lowering their standards. If you scored between a 65 - 88 on the test, according to their own standards, you are a qualified candidate. They decided to only look at applicants who scored 89 or higher to, according to them, narrow down the applicants. An employer has every right to establish minimal standards for their employees. For example, if a job required that you must be able to lift 25lbs. If that is the standard, however, and the employer decided to only look at applicants who could lift 100lbs, that would be discriminatory to most women.

Who are they discriminating against...stupid people? What is your solution considering there was too many qualifying people?

If the black numbers would've been higher we wouldnt be talking about this, good grief we will never have a end to racial tension in this country if people dont stop pissing and moaning about such riducouls things!

[KaiserD 12]

Who said anything about color?

What many forget is that I cannot force people in the AA community to want to learn.

Well...you can't make the alcoholics want to learn, no

Some of the poorest areas in America (not all) receive more funding per student than the wealthiest, yet still do not perform anywhere near that of others.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to say at the end. Just because they get the money it doesn't mean it solves the problem. Parents attitude and education counts (and other home/social issues) count for just as much. It's all still relevant, the quality/level of education is overall lesser in black communities and I'm pretty sure this is the cause of disparity here. Again, it's not the Fire Department's responsibility to fix this or make up for it though.

[Heracles 417]

I rest my case.

Since day one you guys have played on the white = racist, while black can do no wrong bandwagon. Therefore, it's I who shouldn't be surprised and rest my case.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Booyah!

[SMR 368]

Setting standards to meet the job requirements is different from setting standards that exceed beyond the job duties. The whole hiring process is to find applicants who are qualified to do the job and they were excluding applicants who test scores were well within qualified to do the job.

Surely you can acknowledge the difference between someone who meets the minimum standards to be qualified for a job and someone who is well/highly qualified to perform a job. Not everyone who passes the test is equally qualified to perform the job. In a market where there are more applicants than positions, the employer has the right and necessity to differentiate between qualified and highly qualified.

You can argue that the test is not a good indicator of ability to actually perform the job but that is a pointless argument unless you have seen the test and have an background that would allow you to know what makes a good firefighter. Moreover, it's a discussion that is should be completely divorced from the race issue and based solely on the correlation between test scores and ability to perform as a firefighter, which we don't know. And if the test were shown to not indicate that an 89 performs better than a 65, I think it would be very suspect to claim that a 65 would perform better than a 60 in which case the test is meaningless.

[SMOKE 1,426]

And where did I say that?

you didn't exactly. you implied that if you disagreed w/ the decission you're a ...... you said.

Meh, aside from the "victims" themselves the people that get the most 'up in arms' about these things seem to be the ones that use it to go on anti-affirmative action and "reverse discrimination" tirades.

'people that get the most 'up in arms'' are questioning why excepting the highest scoring applicants is a problem.

Edited May 24, 2010 by SMOKE

[Jenn! 918]

Since day one you guys have played on the white = racist, while black can do no wrong bandwagon. Therefore, it's I who shouldn't be surprised and rest my case.

Really? Who posted the article and with what intent? Hmmm?

I personally don't agree with affirmative action when it comes to employment, especially jobs where lives are at stake. At the same time I don't get all hot under the collar when I read about things like this.

And I'm sure we'd all be interested in what the old booyah would have to say.