A Plea to Long Time, Level-Headed Members Who Still Post Here

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Interesting to read the replies to that, and also to click through and see who voted for what option. Really no surprises as to who is on which side of the OT TOS fence.

Yes I was going to make it private, but thought better of it in case a bunch of new user names with zero posts started voting if you catch my meaning.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Yes I was going to make it private, but thought better of it in case a bunch of new user names with zero posts started voting if you catch my meaning.

Meaning caught. Again, no surprises. Why the hell not try a one-week experiment with "real" modding on OT? If it doesn't work, we revert to the current situation.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Yes I was going to make it private, but thought better of it in case a bunch of new user names with zero posts started voting if you catch my meaning.

Sounds to me like you're anti-noob. Message board elitist

[TBoneTX 45,077]

Why the hell not try a one-week experiment with "real" modding on OT? If it doesn't work, we revert to the current situation.

Oof, man -- interesting concept, but not all the Mods working 24/7 solely in OT could police that place, no man. The regulars, knowing that the modding experiment was finite, would humor, ignore, or belittle the moderation efforts, and then return to, uh, monkey-business as usual, si man.

Also, it's really a shame when people simply disappear, for whatever reason. Enable some closure by posting a "farewell" message of some sort, si man. The obvious exception is when someone's VJ account is closed for them, si man.

Gracias for the congrats. Home tests now confirmed by doctor tests: T-B. shall soon be the ancestor of a descendant, si man.

[john_and_marlene 162]

You posted in OT on May 6. So your departure is recent I take it?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/255257-russians-storm-hijacked-ship-free-crew-from-pirates/page__view__findpost__p__3920156

In terms of overall departures, there have been exit posts and reponses to: What happened to so and so? Also, last post on a profile is a good indicator of a persons status.

An occassional post while viewing new content messages is a far cry from regularly visiting a forum. Once again you have missed the forest for the trees ... -1

[William33 110]

An occassional post while viewing new content messages is a far cry from regularly visiting a forum. Once again you have missed the forest for the trees ... -1

I was pointing out to you John, that there are no absolutes. You said you departed from OT, which is largely true but not absolute.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

When you have a bunch of people who hold each other in such utter contempt, that's going to happen. I don't see how you get around it.

After all, what is "Please do explain, I'm up for a good laugh.", if not a demonstration of absolute contempt for the other posters opinion?

When you have this level of contempt for fellow posters, you're not going to be 'level headed' with them because in your mind you don't believe they deserve it.

I find many current posters on OT quite contemptible myself, and I honestly don't believe I could ever be 'level headed' with them. And I'm not the only one.

One way that helps alleviate contempt is when people aren't in the trenches, constantly battling ideologies. Aside from that, I've come to the realization that OT needs to be reigned in with the same level of moderation as the upper forums. I say that after years of being in favor of rules being more lax in OT. I have participated in the antagonizing, but now there is so much contempt that rarely is any thread given any serious and careful consideration because everyone expects the usual suspects to show up with their flame throwers. Sure, it can make things entertaining and exciting for a little while, but eventually people grow tired and bored, or just turned off by the playground antics.

[Peikko 1,575]

At least AJ was honest with his opinion and I believe that his contempt has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with ideology. He is contemptuous across the board with poorly thought out responses and he is particularly contemptuous over posters who post continuously using crude and vulgar bigotry.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

One way that helps alleviate contempt is when people aren't in the trenches, constantly battling ideologies. Aside from that, I've come to the realization that OT needs to be reigned in with the same level of moderation as the upper forums. I say that after years of being in favor of rules being more lax in OT. I have participated in the antagonizing, but now there is so much contempt that rarely is any thread given any serious and careful consideration because everyone expects the usual suspects to show up with their flame throwers. Sure, it can make things entertaining and exciting for a little while, but eventually people grow tired and bored, or just turned off by the playground antics.

First step to stop getting dirt thrown in your face: Stop digging yourself in deeper.

[Peikko 1,575]

At least, that is my opinion on his posting when he makes particularly cutting posts.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

First step to stop getting dirt thrown in your face: Stop digging yourself in deeper.

Bill, I know that I've participated in the antagonizing. I have for several years thought it would be better to have less moderation and be more loose with the TOS in OT. I also have a fairly thick hide or I wouldn't have hung out in OT all these years. But what I've seen is a lot of intelligent, meaningful discussions turn into toilet water because antagonism bleeds from one thread into the next. It's easy to hijack a thread. What takes effort is learning to keep emotions in check, articulate your thoughts and show civility even to those you might dislike or disagree with.

[TBoneTX 45,077]

Stop digging yourself in deeper.

OT for this thread, but otherwise perfect, si man: A neighbor looked over his backyard fence and saw the little boy next door digging a large hole while weeping bitterly. "What's the matter, Little Johnny?" the neighbor asked.

"My goldfish died, and I'm burying him," Little Johnny tearfully said.

"I'm sorry to hear that," said the neighbor. "But that's a rather large hole for a goldfish..."

"That's because he's inside your CAT!" said Little Johnny.

[Peikko 1,575]

Go look in OT Steve, what do you see? How many threads can you see that have interesting topics up for discussion that have replies? How many threads can you see that are an obvious bait that have replies?

All these holier than thous who 'would post in OT if it wasn't a cesspool' people are talking bullshit. They have no more interest in engaging in lively discussions about a variety of topics than you do. You want people to talk about your pet topics but in a way that suits you or not at all and you think that's being a grown up?

What I believe is that people for the most part want to engage in light hearted banter without doing too much thinking or research and occasionally this gets out of hand and becomes ugly and the sensitive folks get their feathers ruffled. That's how it is, that's how people are. Like it or lump it, but change it? I don't think you can make people keep their emotions in check and some people are simply not capable of articulating anything other than emotional claptrap and if you think for one moment I am going to be civil to boorish, bigoted folks you have another think coming. What you are saying is that everyone's opinion has equal merit and should be given respect and I am telling you that that is the biggest pile of poo yet.

I don't like moderation, but I accept that this board is moderated and stay within the guidelines, or accept any punishment meted out for not doing so. I don't hope to influence the moderators one way or another, they do their job and I am grateful that they are for the most part fair considering they operate on the basis of responding to complaints rather than reading everything and removing everything that falls outside of the TOS. I also believe that there are some opinions that should not be swept under the carpet on a site that caters for immigrants from all around the world who have varying degrees of understanding of the immigration process and what is and isn't within the rules of immigration and that should be dealt with at the very least with posts condemning the opinions that make VJ OT appear to reflect a narrow minded, bigoted view of the American people and what they stand for.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Go look in OT Steve, what do you see? How many threads can you see that have interesting topics up for discussion that have replies? How many threads can you see that are an obvious bait that have replies?

All these holier than thous who 'would post in OT if it wasn't a cesspool' people are talking bullshit. They have no more interest in engaging in lively discussions about a variety of topics than you do. You want people to talk about your pet topics but in a way that suits you or not at all and you think that's being a grown up?

You're misrepresenting what I've just said and have been saying. No one is forced to reply let alone read anyone's post or thread. In fact, I've grown quite accustomed to completely skimming over some members' threads and posts for various reasons. That's my choice and I'm sure others feel the same and do the same. The problem that I see is that many here take every opportunity to antagonize one another by hijacking threads or replying to someone's post without adding anything to the topic. I've done it, you've done it and most everyone who is still around in OT has done it. My argument here is that in itself helps perpetuate contempt which then bleeds from one thread to the next. While there once used to be a friendlier sense of community, everyone's got a chip on their shoulder.

What I believe is that people for the most part want to engage in light hearted banter without doing too much thinking or research and occasionally this gets out of hand and becomes ugly and the sensitive folks get their feathers ruffled. That's how it is, that's how people are. Like it or lump it, but change it? I don't think you can make people keep their emotions in check and some people are simply not capable of articulating anything other than emotional claptrap and if you think for one moment I am going to be civil to boorish, bigoted folks you have another think coming. What you are saying is that everyone's opinion has equal merit and should be given respect and I am telling you that that is the biggest pile of poo yet.

No, I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying there are more appropriate ways to confront, challenge, or deal with opinions that you might find repulsive or beyond redemption. The 'anything goes' experiment was tried and it failed. It's time to go back to trying to communicate online the way we communicate in everyday interactions - with a bit more restraint and civility, even to those whose opinions or ideas we find repulsive.

[Jenn! 918]

No, I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying there are more appropriate ways to confront, challenge, or deal with opinions that you might find repulsive or beyond redemption. The 'anything goes' experiment was tried and it failed. It's time to go back to trying to communicate online the way we communicate in everyday interactions - with a bit more restraint and civility, even to those whose opinions or ideas we find repulsive.

The bottom line is that the current state of OT along with its atmosphere bleeding into the upper forums drives away membership. I think admin has acted on the desires of the vocal minority that want less moderation. Wasn't there a survey not so long ago that indeed showed that "the people" want a more heavily moderated site?