A Plea to Long Time, Level-Headed Members Who Still Post Here

[William33 110]

William -

Saying "anyway I wish you the best" doesn't sound like - see you later, adios, don't let the door hit you in the ####### on the way out?

I hope Steven didn't take it that way, as this was not the intent.

[William33 110]

First, I am my own evidence of departure to the upper threads--a long long time ago.

Second, what effort was extended to prove the "fact" of migration from VJ rather than a retreat from the OT forum?

You now have seen evidence of at least one departure to the upper threads vs. moving on from VJ.

However, if the demeanor from OT continues to spill over into the upper forums, I may depart. Can I then call it a "proven fact" that even departures are because of the loss of control from OT?

You posted in OT on May 6. So your departure is recent I take it?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/255257-russians-storm-hijacked-ship-free-crew-from-pirates/page__view__findpost__p__3920156

In terms of overall departures, there have been exit posts and reponses to: What happened to so and so? Also, last post on a profile is a good indicator of a persons status.

[TracyTN 237]

I don't consider myself an OT poster either, for good reason - but I have posted in the Baby thread recently so I guess that counts me out too, then.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... shouldn't we try to always return to a neutral level headedness?

No, I don't think we should. Not every poster is deserving of his/her opinion being given the same respect that is given to others. Some posters, in my opinion, are worthy of contempt and nothing but contempt. Be neutral with them? I don't think so.

And yet, it is clear to me that it is these displays of contempt that are dragging the overall level of discourse on OT down even further. I am shown contempt, I show contempt back, others join in and shower more contempt upon everyone else and before you know it, OT becomes what it has become. Will I tone down the displays of contempt towards those I feel deserve it? Not a chance. But that isn't the only way to remedy the situation. Don't fear the exodus, celebrate it. The vacuum will bring new IDs, new people, people who don't know each other well and haven't had a chance to develop contempt for each other yet.

In other words, don't encourage the return of long-time level headed members. They know who the neanderthals are. OT needs fresh blood, people who haven't formed those opinions yet.

[Jenn! 918]

The only noobs attracted to OT as it is now are a bit neanderthal-like themselves.

I actually think OT has toned down in the past year or so. Maybe that's because I'm not trying to mod it.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The only noobs attracted to OT as it is now are a bit neanderthal-like themselves.

If some of us regulars "slow down" the OT posting, I am confident that will change.

[GJen 9]

If I think back like 6 years ago when I first joined, I waited awhile before going into OT because I found it slightly intimidating. Not because of politics and debates, but because the people there seemed to already be getting to know each other so well and I didn't know them at all. I warmed up to it eventually.

I second that!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Just bumping the link to the poll forward...

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/257772-ot-and-you/

[bakofoil 27]

No, I don't think we should. Not every poster is deserving of his/her opinion being given the same respect that is given to others. Some posters, in my opinion, are worthy of contempt and nothing but contempt. Be neutral with them? I don't think so.

And yet, it is clear to me that it is these displays of contempt that are dragging the overall level of discourse on OT down even further. I am shown contempt, I show contempt back, others join in and shower more contempt upon everyone else and before you know it, OT becomes what it has become. Will I tone down the displays of contempt towards those I feel deserve it? Not a chance. But that isn't the only way to remedy the situation. Don't fear the exodus, celebrate it. The vacuum will bring new IDs, new people, people who don't know each other well and haven't had a chance to develop contempt for each other yet.

In other words, don't encourage the return of long-time level headed members. They know who the neanderthals are. OT needs fresh blood, people who haven't formed those opinions yet.

I have to agree with every word of this. I'm a very occasional OT poster. If someone says something I find contemptible and I feel like responding I will try to do so in a reasoned and impersonal way. If I am shown contempt in the response then I'm inclined to show contempt back because it's impossible to reason or be neutral with a lot of posters here. Most often I just walk away from the discussion when it no longer holds my interest. There are some very reasonable people who post in OT but any discourse with them is lost in the fight that ensues between them and the "neanderthal" opposition. That's probably most likely why people give up on OT because their voices are never heard unless they post something controversial and inflammatory.

This doesn't just happen in OT either, although it true to say the behaviour is more rife in OT, personal attacks occur in the upper forums where the more serious business of this site is conducted. Sometimes I'll play with the game-players (yes, I am guilty), other times I would rather be doing something else. However, if I feel someone really needs good advice amongst all the unhelpful nonsense going on I'll PM them and refer them to another site where I feel the admin cares and they will get the answers they need without having to get involved in any games. Maybe it's a symptom of my general feelings of derision towards this site and the way that people conduct themselves. As noted in the quote above, it's probably too late for the older crowd to break the habit of toying with the Neanderthals.

Congratulations T-bone on the little T-bone!!

[Pooky 3,784]

The only noobs attracted to OT as it is now are a bit neanderthal-like themselves.

I actually think OT has toned down in the past year or so. Maybe that's because I'm not trying to mod it.

No kidding! I got n00bed yesterday, apparently.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

We need more of you to participate in the Off Topic Forum. For those who are level-headed, you know who you are and you've probably avoided OT because of the handful of posters who've made it less enjoyable to have reasonable discussions about a lot of topics that deserve some serious thought. Of course, not every thread needs to be serious, but I think the ones here who've been long time members and are still here, are staying in the upper forums where there is less tolerance for playground behavior.

What a whiner! Geez, Steve!

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

No kidding! I got n00bed yesterday, apparently.

I suppose it happens even to "legacy members".

[ValerieA 350]

I suppose it happens even to "legacy members".

Did you just call Pooky old?

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Maybe I did.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Just bumping the link to the poll forward...

http://www.visajourn...772-ot-and-you/

Interesting to read the replies to that, and also to click through and see who voted for what option. Really no surprises as to who is on which side of the OT TOS fence.