Ummm, maybe another stupid question!

[MelissaJulian 30]

Maven, I didn't know.

Lisa, thank you for your post. I haven't had time to read it through carefully but I will take the time to do that later today.

Johnny, I appreciate you feeling protective of me (and it's very flattering) but I hope I know what I am doing. Julian and I just spoke as he's gone to bed right now and I am thinking about leaving VJ for a while since what I say seems to get people bothered. I am not saying I will definitely do this, but I think I need to have a little space. Then again, I am known to change my mind very quickly and I might just be here for a long time!

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Maven, I didn't know.

Lisa, thank you for your post. I haven't had time to read it through carefully but I will take the time to do that later today.

Johnny, I appreciate you feeling protective of me (and it's very flattering) but I hope I know what I am doing. Julian and I just spoke as he's gone to bed right now and I am thinking about leaving VJ for a while since what I say seems to get people bothered. I am not saying I will definitely do this, but I think I need to have a little space. Then again, I am known to change my mind very quickly and I might just be here for a long time!

Melissa, if you take a Vj break of your own volition, that's fine.

On the other hand if you are taking a break because Julian thinks the place is infested with 'inmates' and are a bad influence on you, well that in my opinion is another matter.

Little tip for you while we are at it. Those of us (like Maven) who have been in these international LDR's and marriages for a while can attest to the fact that one day the marriage becomes just pretty much like any domestic one. You'll quit hearing Julian's accent and you'll quit finding some of his cultural nuances 'cute'. You won't be his 'yankee princess' one day, you'll just be his wife.

That's not bad news if the true character of those individuals are worthy of each others best virtues. It takes a healthy self-esteem and a few hard knocks to understand your own self-worth as a person though, before you can assess whether someone is a fit life partner for you. It's harder to do that sometimes if that person has charmed us in some way.

Just some thoughts for you.

[Fandango 1,439]

Maven, I didn't know.

Lisa, thank you for your post. I haven't had time to read it through carefully but I will take the time to do that later today.

Johnny, I appreciate you feeling protective of me (and it's very flattering) but I hope I know what I am doing. Julian and I just spoke as he's gone to bed right now and I am thinking about leaving VJ for a while since what I say seems to get people bothered. I am not saying I will definitely do this, but I think I need to have a little space. Then again, I am known to change my mind very quickly and I might just be here for a long time!

Well, whatever you do, good luck to you.

Let me assure you, despite what your fiance says, people here are not troublemakers. Instead, they are very compassionate and empathetic people who have taken time out to write you very thoughtful and sincere responses. I don't know you from a hole in the wall....but from reading your blog, my heart breaks for you.

I'd also suggest that no matter what you do, you take the time and contemplate seeing a therapist. I'm not saying this to insult you...therapy is a wonderful tool where you can vent to someone in complete privacy, and perhaps work out individual issues. There IS a Melissa aside from MelissaJulian. And I really do think that a bit of introspection with a licensed professional would help you greatly.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

That's not bad news if the true character of those individuals are worthy of each others best virtues. It takes a healthy self-esteem and a few hard knocks to understand your own self-worth as a person though, before you can assess whether someone is a fit life partner for you. It's harder to do that sometimes if that person has charmed us in some way.

This. If someone had been able to tell me this five years ago, when my life in London was chugging along very nicely, thank you, I might have been a little more circumspect in the decisions I made. I recently found the blog I was keeping from right around the time I met my husband and I can see every single problem we eventually faced there in the first three months. It's fascinating but frightening stuff -- and just like you, Melissa, I justified his bad behaviour away because I was so in love. In retrospect, the real reason I left London was because he wanted to move to the US. I wasn't terrifically happy in my job or my flat, but both of those things could have been changed. I moved because I was convinced by him that was what I wanted to do; I now have the courage to say that I probably never should have left the UK and should have stood up for what I believed. 20/20 hindsight is a terrible thing.

Edited May 27, 2010 by elmcitymaven

[Fandango 1,439]

This. If someone had been able to tell me this five years ago, when my life in London was chugging along very nicely, thank you, I might have been a little more circumspect in the decisions I made. I recently found the blog I was keeping from right around the time I met my husband and I can see every single problem we eventually faced there in the first three months. It's fascinating but frightening stuff -- and just like you, Melissa, I justified his bad behaviour away because I was so in love. In retrospect, the real reason I left London was because he wanted to move to the US. I wasn't terrifically happy in my job or my flat, but both of those things could have been changed. I moved because I was convinced by him that was what I wanted to do; I now have the courage to say that I probably never should have left the UK and should have stood up for what I believed. 20/20 hindsight is a terrible thing.

Maven, can you go back?

Edited May 27, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Indeed I can. I have residency still. And if I let it slip I was moving back to the UK, I would have plenty of job offers. But if I did move back, I probably wouldn't move back to London and join the rat race again. I have loved the past (nearly) three years being my own boss, so I would probably move either to near Bakewell or Bristol, both places that mean a lot to me and where I feel comfortable and myself.

[Fandango 1,439]

That's excellent news! Options are a wonderful thing.

Don't live your life being 'beige' that's what I always say.

[Welshcookie 17]

I have been vaguely following this thread and read some of Melissa's blog and of course as my title says I couldn't possibly comment...but of course I will

There have been comments by people whom I regard as friends and respect here on VJ. But, I do feel uncomfortable how this thread has somehow come down to 'convincing' Melissa that Julian is a bad choice for her. It is quite obvious to me that they love each other just as much as any of us love/loved our partners through our own visa journeys, some of us never made it, some of us made it and struggled afterwards, some of us are living happily ever after...(I'm in one of those categories, of course ).

But, can anyone truly say through any of those scenarios that no friend or loved one expressed concern and tried to talk them out of the relationship at any stage of it and did you listen? I guess not, because we all have to reach that conclusion ourselves...I personally don't buy into "hindsight", we make our choices period good or bad and we move on, have regrets yes of course. How many times have we heard friends/family say "I told you X number of years ago to leave that A@@hole" but at the time we don't listen.

Let these people sort it out, it may or may not end in disaster down the road who knows? but you/we can't save anyone from heartache as much as we wish we could.

Melissa, Julian...I wish you both well in your journey together.

P.S @Lisa....can you educate me in the correct usage of "Who" and Whom"..dang I can never figure it out :lol: love ya

Edited May 27, 2010 by Welshcookie

[Fandango 1,439]

I have been vaguely following this thread and read some of Melissa's blog and of course as my title says I couldn't possibly comment...but of course I will

There have been comments by people whom I regard as friends and respect here on VJ. But, I do feel uncomfortable how this thread has somehow come down to 'convincing' Melissa that Julian is a bad choice for her. It is quite obvious to me that they love each other just as much as any of us love/loved our partners through our own visa journeys, some of us never made it, some of us made it and struggled afterwards, some of us are living happily ever after...(I'm in one of those categories, of course ).

But, can anyone truly say through any of those scenarios that no friend or loved one expressed concern and tried to talk them out of the relationship at any stage of it and did you listen? I guess not, because we all have to reach that conclusion ourselves...I personally don't buy into "hindsight", we make our choices period good or bad and we move on, have regrets yes of course. How many times have we heard friends/family say "I told you X number of years ago to leave that A@@hole" but at the time we don't listen.

Let these people sort it out, it may or may not end in disaster down the road who knows? but you/we can't save anyone from heartache as much as we wish we could.

Melissa, Julian...I wish you both well in your journey together.

P.S @Lisa....can you educate me in the correct usage of "Who" and Whom"..dang I can never figure it out :lol: love ya

Objectively, I'd tend to agree with you, actually. But it's hard when you see something so very blatant and you want to save someone from heartache (as you said). It's kind of like watching your fave soap opera or something...you see someone making what you see as a huge azzed mistake, or you see someone being treated like #######, and you wind up yelling at the tv. In this instance, it's even harder because I, if not others as well (can't speak for them) have interpreted Melissa's blog and reaching out to Elm as a plea for help. Who can be so cold as to turn one's back on someone when she needs support? It's hard to just see something like that and not try to do something. It's also the very nature of a message board, you try to offer advice, and maybe sometimes it's easier to hear from a stranger because there's nothing vested for them in the outcome. But you are so right, people are going to do what they are going to do, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

I'll be honest with you, Julian did get my back up the way he spoke about Melissa during the car fiasco. I did tend to agree with him though, about why he was upset, but I saw the way he went about it as being completely disrespectful to his future wife. But after reading her blog, (to me), seeing the amt of times he has let her eat sh!t because of his friend....well, unfortunately, I previously know what it's like for your SO to not defend you to the death. My ex-H was a good man, but weak, and his crazy mother and sister just couldn't leave us alone, and he wouldn't do a thing about it. Excuses were ALWAYS made. And, old timers, if you can believe this...I never said a harsh word to them, never defended myself at all. I was young, and I wanted a peaceful existence, so when they would meddle or be awful, I'd let it slide off, make excuses, etc. Much like I see Melissa doing. It's so frustrating imo when the one you love doesn't fully have your back. Wound up with me waking up one innocuous day and saying 'right, I'm done' And yeah, perhaps I have projected a bit because I know what it feels like, but I wouldn't wish that feeling on my worst enemy. Anastacia's song 'Left outside alone' always reminds me of my ex. It's horrible to not feel totally protected from the bs in the world, when your SO could easily remedy that, but refuses to.

I have imo taken the harder road, but I refused to settle, and now I find myself in the relationship that has exceeded my wildest dreams, with a man that I thank God for every single day. To me, it's the difference between regular tv with rabbit ears and high def...at the time regular tv was fine enough...a few issues, but eh, what's the alternative....but omG, then compare it to high def!! I could have decided to continue, oh I love him blah blah blah, but he wasn't treating me right...and I am so thankful that I had the strength, courage, and support system that has made it possible to actually follow my heart and refuse to settle. I look at my life now, and I am happier beyond anything I have ever ever expected. And when you see 'the light', it's hard not to want the same thing for others.

Hrmm, this post makes me seem like a tv junkie since I referenced it twice, lol.

My beloved grandmother used to always say 'if the courtship isn't right and has issues, the marriage will be worse.'

Anyhoo, I've said my peace in this thread, and I am going to try not to say anything further.

As to the who/whom, it always has me stumped so I just throw it out there whenever it sounds correct ;) mad to you too, my fave Cookie of them all!!!!

[The_Dude 1,142]

I do apologize for barging in. I know how some regional forums frown upon outsiders posting in their domain. I just couldn't help it. I found the "annoying BS your SO does" thread hillarious, and the bleeding over into this thread is a page turner. So much so that I found myself actually reading Melissa's blog yesterday . I hate blogs, but well, I was waiting on some data at work yesterday and couldn't resist.

Seeing Julian's initial posts, I thought he was a forum troll. I mean really, someone can't be that much of a douchebag in real life right? But I do have to say, I agree with him on two things. Backstage Bar is absolute #######, there are far better dive bars in Culver City , and the bit about guys hanging around on the fringe as "friends" waiting for an opening. But I disagree as to how to handle it. I've been in that situation and I trust my wife completely. I don't doubt their sincerity or their love for one another, but this is the internet, how can we really know that any of it is completely true.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I see both Julian and Melissa lurking in this thread as I post. Although I have little interest in hearing what Julian has to say, I would like to hear Melissa speak up for herself today.

[MelissaJulian 30]

Hi everyone. I just wanted to say thanks to all the kind people who posted here (especially Happy Bunny, TracyTN and welshcookie) and took the time to give me advice. It may seem like I'm not listening to what people have to say, but I really have been re-reading this thread and all the comments made on my blog again and again. I will be very honest and say that I have thought in the past some of the things about my fiance that you posted, like how can he stand up for his best friend against me, or why can't he treat me like a grown-up? But I also spend a lot of time thinking about why I think those things in the first place -- do I act like a child so he treats me like a child? I think yes, sometimes I do. So if I start acting like an adult he will treat me like an adult too. And he has been friends with Alex way longer than with me, so I can understand why his first reaction might be to stand up for him first. He knows I don't like this, and he has said (in fact he said to me this morning when we spoke) that he knows he needs to put me before Alex and he is really going to try. They have been like brothers for years and have shared more things than I have with Julian so I can understand a bit.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Melissa, this is not exactly what I wanted to read, but I am glad that you have decided to stay on VJ. I hope that this was your own decision and not that you were "allowed" to keep mixing with the "inmates." I believe you might get some small benefit out of hearing opinions that are not Julian's.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Hi everyone. I just wanted to say thanks to all the kind people who posted here (especially Happy Bunny, TracyTN and welshcookie) and took the time to give me advice. It may seem like I'm not listening to what people have to say, but I really have been re-reading this thread and all the comments made on my blog again and again. I will be very honest and say that I have thought in the past some of the things about my fiance that you posted, like how can he stand up for his best friend against me, or why can't he treat me like a grown-up? But I also spend a lot of time thinking about why I think those things in the first place -- do I act like a child so he treats me like a child? I think yes, sometimes I do. So if I start acting like an adult he will treat me like an adult too. And he has been friends with Alex way longer than with me, so I can understand why his first reaction might be to stand up for him first. He knows I don't like this, and he has said (in fact he said to me this morning when we spoke) that he knows he needs to put me before Alex and he is really going to try. They have been like brothers for years and have shared more things than I have with Julian so I can understand a bit.

I think what it comes down to is what you're willing to accept. Only you can determine the standards by which you live your life. It's not a bad thing to be self-aware and to acknowledge that sometimes people treat you a certain way because you are a certain way. But sometimes people treat you a certain way because they're a certain way. It can be tricky to figure this stuff out, especially when love and affection are involved and kick aside rational thought.

[MelissaJulian 30]

I think what it comes down to is what you're willing to accept. Only you can determine the standards by which you live your life. It's not a bad thing to be self-aware and to acknowledge that sometimes people treat you a certain way because you are a certain way. But sometimes people treat you a certain way because they're a certain way. It can be tricky to figure this stuff out, especially when love and affection are involved and kick aside rational thought.

Hmmmm. I agree with you -- I sometimes wonder if my love for Julian gets in the way of seeing what may or may not be there. When I first met him, he was just a friend of a friend, and I thought he was terrible! But over the course of a few weeks he kind of wore me down with his sweetness and when I start wondering if what I am doing is right, I remember that beautiful boy who took me for long walks in Ashton Court and opened up a big and scary new city to me. He was there for me every time I felt lost or sad or homesick, and listened to me when I was worried that I would never finish out the year. He took me back, no questions asked, when I did something that should have destroyed his trust. Time after time when I have made mistakes, he has forgiven me. I am grateful for all of this.

And when I lived over there for six months, and felt even more alone (especially when we were out in the countryside), he took days off of work to do things he thought I would like, like drive up to see Chatsworth House or go spend a few days in Paris, and he always made sure that everything went as smoothly as possible for me. He stood up for me to his mother sometimes, and she is just about the scariest person I have ever met! And he has told Alex that I am off limits again and again.

He's not a bad guy, really, and I think he just doesn't express himself in words like he does in real life.