5th lawsuit filed to fight Arizona immigration law

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

they can arrest you when they pull you over for speeding or any other convictable offense.

They aren't just going to let you go without identifying you.

If you cannot be identified, you will be detained. Which they can legally do for 24 hours without arresting you.

If by speeding you mean "reckless driving" ie. a Misdemeanor then yes. Most municipalities have laws on the books that forbid arrest for a civil ord. violation (we discussed this before)

Unless they have a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime, then your name/address is enough - ie. you've been identified.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

If by speeding you mean "reckless driving" ie. a Misdemeanor then yes. Most municipalities have laws on the books that forbid arrest for a civil ord. violation (we discussed this before)

Unless they have a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime, then your name/address is enough - ie. you've been identified.

I beg to differ. When I was stationed at Great Lakes when I was in the Navy I got pulled over for speeding. I had forgotten my wallet. Even though I identified myself, gave a military address and was 100% upfront the cop wouldn't let me go without ID'ing me. I spent 6 hours in a holding cell until my room mate brought my wallet to the station. All I was pulled over for was simple speeding.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I beg to differ. When I was stationed at Great Lakes when I was in the Navy I got pulled over for speeding. I had forgotten my wallet. Even though I identified myself, gave a military address and was 100% upfront the cop wouldn't let me go without ID'ing me. I spent 6 hours in a holding cell until my room mate brought my wallet to the station. All I was pulled over for was simple speeding.

Paul and I were referring to a "stop and identify" scenario (ie. walking down the street). You can be arrested for driving without a license, which is what sounds like happened to you.

The general rule of thumb as a USC in America - You must have an ID (license) when operating a vehicle (including a bicycle in many states). However there is currently no law requiring ID when in public.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Sousuke

[JohnSmith2007 353]

Paul and I were referring to a "stop and identify" scenario (ie. walking down the street). You can be arrested for driving without a license, which is what sounds like happened to you.

The general rule of them as a USC in America - You must have an ID (license) when operating a vehicle (including a bicycle in many states). However there is currently no law requiring ID when in public.

That is the point of the argument. The AZ law does not allow a cop to stop someone walking down the street. They can only ask if they are contacting you for another reason (like speeding). They cannot under this law just randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That is the point of the argument. The AZ law does not allow a cop to stop someone walking down the street. They can only ask if they are contacting you for another reason (like speeding). They cannot under this law just randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk.

nor can they anywhere in this nation unless it's late at night and the city has a curfew.

[Ban Hammer 13,367]

nor can they anywhere in this nation unless it's late at night and the city has a curfew.

and then there's martial law.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

That is the point of the argument. The AZ law does not allow a cop to stop someone walking down the street. They can only ask if they are contacting you for another reason (like speeding). They cannot under this law just randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk.

But they can under stop and identify.

[The_Dude 1,142]

That is the point of the argument. The AZ law does not allow a cop to stop someone walking down the street. They can only ask if they are contacting you for another reason (like speeding). They cannot under this law just randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk.

It is far to easy to manufacture a reason to stop and question someone, especially in a large urban area. So yes, they can virtually randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk if they want to.

Furthermore, police departments have easy access to city, county and state records regarding identifying someone by name. If the person in question is from out of state, it is a much more lengthy process that could take hours.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

But they can under stop and identify.

there is no 'stop and identify' in the law... never was...

[JohnSmith2007 353]

But they can under stop and identify.

No they can't. Show me the law that says so.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

there is no 'stop and identify' in the law... never was...

They didn't have to include it, the AZ law was enacted 5 years ago.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

It is far to easy to manufacture a reason to stop and question someone, especially in a large urban area. So yes, they can virtually randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk if they want to.

Furthermore, police departments have easy access to city, county and state records regarding identifying someone by name. If the person in question is from out of state, it is a much more lengthy process that could take hours.

So you think the cops in AZ have so much time on their hands that they will manufacture excuses to hassle random brown people that are minding their own business and that gives you reason to oppose any attempt to fix the mess we are in. Someone sounds paranoid.

They didn't have to include it, the AZ law was enacted 5 years ago.

I still say BS. Show me the law.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

It is far to easy to manufacture a reason to stop and question someone, especially in a large urban area. So yes, they can virtually randomly ask people walking down the sidewalk if they want to.

Furthermore, police departments have easy access to city, county and state records regarding identifying someone by name. If the person in question is from out of state, it is a much more lengthy process that could take hours.

Not as of this year. All databases are linked now. They can just as easily pull up out of state info as they can local info.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

So you think the cops in AZ have so much time on their hands that they will manufacture excuses to hassle random brown people that are minding their own business and that gives you reason to oppose any attempt to fix the mess we are in. Someone sounds paranoid.

I still say BS. Show me the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes#Obligations_under_.E2.80.9Cstop_and_identify.E2.80.9D_laws

[The_Dude 1,142]

Not as of this year. All databases are linked now. They can just as easily pull up out of state info as they can local info.

They have access to, not necissarily linked, in which case, it's not a full snapshot of the desired information. As was stated in the OP, some states do not require proof of legal status in order to obtain a drivers license. Is the lesson gleaned from this that people who are from such states and are brown should avoid Arizona, or at least carry all necessary documentation to prove your legal status?

So you think the cops in AZ have so much time on their hands that they will manufacture excuses to hassle random brown people that are minding their own business and that gives you reason to oppose any attempt to fix the mess we are in. Someone sounds paranoid.

It's not that hard, and it doesn't take any time at all. Ask a cop.