USCIS says they haven't received our application...

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

USCIS must assume the information was omitted unintentionally. You will never see a denial stated because a person did not fill out information on the form. EVER. If this were EVER the case, there would NEVER be a reason for an RFE. ALL RFEs are to request missing or improper information. An adjudicator has NO WAY to determine if a person is answering truthfully or forgot to fill something out. Adjudicators are not allowed to make this judgement. Anyone denying a case on this basis would be in for a world of trouble with the office of the inspector general.

If the information provided in the initial review does not meet the qualifications, the adjudicator MUST allow the petitioner the opportunity to correct or provide the information and YES they most definitely worry about "covering their @ss"

Again, people with differing opinions can offer some cases which have been denied without RFE. Please do so.

Gary, I am sure you are correct.

Now, say you are an adjudicator. You are looking at the G-325a (it could be the G-325a for the petitioner or for the beneficiary). In the box "current husband or wife" there is the name of an individual who is neither the petitioner or the beneficiary. In the box "former husbands or wives" there is either N/A or there is some allusion to a future ex-spouse.

The petitioner has also been kind enough to supply a cover letter which explains the situation.

What would you be issuing an RFE for?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/RFE021605.pdf

"As part of its backlog reduction initiatives, USCIS is amending the regulations at 8 CFR

103.2(b)(8) to address when a RFE is required, and it is anticipated that the new regulations

will provide greater adjudicative flexibility, guided by policy and procedural memos such as

this one. In the interim, this memorandum reiterates that a RFE or NOID is not required for

every case prior to adjudication, clarifies when an adjudicator may approve or deny an

application or petition without issuing a RFE or NOID, and explains how to choose between

a RFE and NOID."

http://www.murthy.com/news/n_uscres.html

"The February 16, 2005 Memo indicates that the prior (May 4, 2004) RFE Memo was issued because adjudicators were issuing RFEs on cases that were clearly not approvable under any circumstance. These are cases that, essentially, are asking for an immigration benefit that does not exist. The issuance of RFEs in these cases resulted in delays in the processing of legitimate cases. As explained below, this category of case can still be denied without an RFE."

[Amecia 1]

Well thank you for the information. We were both under the impression that the divorce had to be final at the time of the interview, not the time of filing. So insulting my fiance is not necessary since we were both wrong. We will have to cancel the application and start over. Also, I will be hiring an immigration lawyer since we apparently don't know what the heck we're doing (thanks for pointing that out so kindly sir) and I will stop stressing and hope that my application gets approved at some point. Before the baby is born is highly unlikely, but we'll do what we can. And for the person who was wondering whether the baby is my fiance's, yes it is.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Well thank you for the information. We were both under the impression that the divorce had to be final at the time of the interview, not the time of filing. So insulting my fiance is not necessary since we were both wrong. We will have to cancel the application and start over. Also, I will be hiring an immigration lawyer since we apparently don't know what the heck we're doing (thanks for pointing that out so kindly sir) and I will stop stressing and hope that my application gets approved at some point. Before the baby is born is highly unlikely, but we'll do what we can. And for the person who was wondering whether the baby is my fiance's, yes it is.

Amecia, I don' think they information provided to you regarding your child's father was ill-intended. The birth of a US citizen abroad should be recorded at the nearest American consulate to ensure no hiccups with that child's US citizenship.

I believe that's the crucial information Audy-Rob was trying to impart to you.

[Amecia 1]

I was actually talking about the person who said that my fiance clearly cannot follow instructions. I'm not going to look back to see who it was as it is not worth my time and energy. The registration of my child's birth is not an issue as I will do what i have to do to register her birth once she gets here. I did not take offense at all with that comment.

[belinda63 3,038]

Easiest way to handle this. Put a trace on the money order. If it has not yet been cashed place a stop payment on it. It will cost you a fee, for Western Union I think it is about $17. If it has been cashed you will receive a copy of it from the trace request and your case number should be on the back or you will receive a NOA-1 with your case number.

When you have the case number have the petitioner send a notarized statement asking to cancel the case, perhaps mention why, but be brief and sent it delivery confirmation.

Once you receive confirmation the case has been canceled then he is free to file for a K-1, or if you want to marry while this is being resolved, a CR-1. In any case you are looking at 6-8 months in general to receive the visa. No attorney can speed up this process and and neither will you being pregnant. Several persons from countries with lesser health care facilities has requested it and have been denied.

When the baby is born file for a CRBA, not sure what will need to be done for this possibly a DNA test. The baby does not require a visa to enter the US.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well thank you for the information. We were both under the impression that the divorce had to be final at the time of the interview, not the time of filing. So insulting my fiance is not necessary since we were both wrong. We will have to cancel the application and start over. Also, I will be hiring an immigration lawyer since we apparently don't know what the heck we're doing (thanks for pointing that out so kindly sir) and I will stop stressing and hope that my application gets approved at some point. Before the baby is born is highly unlikely, but we'll do what we can. And for the person who was wondering whether the baby is my fiance's, yes it is.

It is good that you learn this now and if you nor your fiance can follow directions then you should pay someone to do so. Also the USCIS is under no obligation to make exceptions for you because you made mistakes, and babies first also. Sounds like you put lots of carts before horses. Such is your right, of course and I strongly defend people's rights to make stupid mistakes at their own expense. Immigration lawyers exist to take money from people that cannot do it themselves. Kind of like plumbers who charge money to unclog toilets...but more expensive and with no guarantee.

I am most pleased to have pointed out the way you can expedite the process for the benfit of your innocent child.

Prepare a proper petition and withdrawl letter.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I was actually talking about the person who said that my fiance clearly cannot follow instructions. I'm not going to look back to see who it was as it is not worth my time and energy. The registration of my child's birth is not an issue as I will do what i have to do to register her birth once she gets here. I did not take offense at all with that comment.

That was me. Glad to have passed on the information so that now you know what to do.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/RFE021605.pdf

"As part of its backlog reduction initiatives, USCIS is amending the regulations at 8 CFR

103.2(b)(8) to address when a RFE is required, and it is anticipated that the new regulations

will provide greater adjudicative flexibility, guided by policy and procedural memos such as

this one. In the interim, this memorandum reiterates that a RFE or NOID is not required for

every case prior to adjudication, clarifies when an adjudicator may approve or deny an

application or petition without issuing a RFE or NOID, and explains how to choose between

a RFE and NOID."

http://www.murthy.com/news/n_uscres.html

"The February 16, 2005 Memo indicates that the prior (May 4, 2004) RFE Memo was issued because adjudicators were issuing RFEs on cases that were clearly not approvable under any circumstance. These are cases that, essentially, are asking for an immigration benefit that does not exist. The issuance of RFEs in these cases resulted in delays in the processing of legitimate cases. As explained below, this category of case can still be denied without an RFE."

I am sure you have many such cases to note. Note the memo refers to cases for benefits "that do not exist" The benefits of a K-1 clearly exist. A K-1 in this case WILL NOT be denied without an RFE. If I am wrong, one of our VJ members will note how they were denied without an RFE.

Have you any idea how many petitions are filed for "friends", 3rd cousins, classmates? Immigration benefits for friends, classmates and 3rd cousins do not exist. Are you aware that the OP is not the only one that cannot read directions? K-1 benefits exist, a large percentage of people cannot fill out a form correctly.

Your task is simple Johnny, find a petition, ANY petition, that was denied, without RFE, because someone didn't fill in a blank on the G-325a. Your attempts to cover your ignorance of the issue with irrelevent memos is of no benefit to the OP. The OP has the information now to proceed. They aren't happy with the result, but such is the case when you shoot yourself in the foot. Both feet actually. For other people reading the forum, it does them no good to be scared to think they may make a mistake or forget to fill in a blank and be suddenly denied.

It won't happen.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary, I am sure you are correct.

Now, say you are an adjudicator. You are looking at the G-325a (it could be the G-325a for the petitioner or for the beneficiary). In the box "current husband or wife" there is the name of an individual who is neither the petitioner or the beneficiary. In the box "former husbands or wives" there is either N/A or there is some allusion to a future ex-spouse.

The petitioner has also been kind enough to supply a cover letter which explains the situation.

What would you be issuing an RFE for?

The divorce certificate of the beneficiary dated prior to the filing of the petition. What is said in the cover letter is of no consequence. NONE. It is not a legal document, it is not a required form, it is written by someone other than the beneficiary for whom you need the document. It has no legal standing. In fact, as far as an adjudicator doing their job is concerned, it does not exist. It is not a matter of logic, it is a matter of law. There is no law, no regulation and no memo that allows an adjudicator to substitue a cover letter for required documents or ignore procedures for one. In your earlier post you conceeded this point and stated flatly that you were not suggesting that the petition would be denied because of a cover letter. You were correct. Why are you changing your tune now? Can you at least be consistent?

Now, the matter of the form. It is obvious something isn't right. Something doesn't make sense. But what? Was some information put in the wrong place? Was something omitted? Did someone not know and think they could just answer "NA"?

No, there will NOT be a denial in this case without RFE. There will be an RFE. WHEN the petitioner cannot, does not or cannot satisfactorily respond to the RFE THEN and only THEN will the adjudicator say "AHAAAA!!! Just as I suspected!" However they will STILL Not say it was because "she wasn't divorced". They will say it is because "XXX-XXX code requires that both parties be free to marry at the time the petition is filed. You did not provide information that both parties were free to marry when the petition was filed and you did not respond to a request to provide such information, therefore the petition is denied based on your inability to produce the necessary documentation"

When the person who couldn't follow directions cries to their congressperson about their "rights" and the congressperson contacts the congressional liason at the service center, the congressional liason will send them a copy of the denial letter and their @ss will be adequately covered. The congressperson, who needs the votes even of people that can't name a country that begins with the letter "U", will have to politely tell the person they shot themselves in the foot. Both feet actually. Unfortunately such people will probably not understand that and then blame their congressperson as well as USCIS for their troubles in life. All of which means nothing because they probably cannot figure out how to register to vote, where the polling place is or how a ballot works. All of which is good news for those of us that do.

Any resemblance in the above remarks to any persons real or imagined is purely coincidental. It is the opinion of the United States Air Force that none of the above could actually take place.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I am sure you have many such cases to note. Note the memo refers to cases for benefits "that do not exist" The benefits of a K-1 clearly exist. A K-1 in this case WILL NOT be denied without an RFE. If I am wrong, one of our VJ members will note how they were denied without an RFE.

Have you any idea how many petitions are filed for "friends", 3rd cousins, classmates? Immigration benefits for friends, classmates and 3rd cousins do not exist. Are you aware that the OP is not the only one that cannot read directions? K-1 benefits exist, a large percentage of people cannot fill out a form correctly.

Your task is simple Johnny, find a petition, ANY petition, that was denied, without RFE, because someone didn't fill in a blank on the G-325a. Your attempts to cover your ignorance of the issue with irrelevent memos is of no benefit to the OP. The OP has the information now to proceed. They aren't happy with the result, but such is the case when you shoot yourself in the foot. Both feet actually. For other people reading the forum, it does them no good to be scared to think they may make a mistake or forget to fill in a blank and be suddenly denied.

It won't happen.

*sigh*

Gary, this is not about trying to scare people into thinking they will be denied if they leave something blank.

What makes you so certain a petition cannot be denied without USCIS first issuing an RFE? Is it your 'relationship' with the Director of the Vermont Service Center?

If that is the case, then I would suggest you ask him about the 'irrelevant' Interoffice Memorandum referred to. Ask him if a case can be denied without an RFE, and then report back to us.

*raises hands*

I have no dog in this fight, but since you seem to, I'd suggest you assure yourself and the membership of your assertions.

*edited to add that my assertions have never been based upon information left blank on a document but rather based upon information that disqualifies the petitioner for the immigration benefit*

Edited May 16, 2010 by JohnnyQuest

[Amecia 1]

Wow! I never thought in a million years that asking this question would set someone off like that, but ok. I asked for information, I got information, now I'm gonna do what I have to do with said information. Now, Gary, honey, if you need to be told you are right and you are the master in order to drop this and stop attacking everybody who seems to want to take it down a notch, well hun, you are right and you are the master. Now go get your wife and tell her you need some lovins buddy, you obviously need it! Geez...

Thank you to everybody who answered my question. Some people were kind enough to present me with facts and others felt they had to go on the attack every time their opinion was challenged, but oh well. Life sucks and then you die. You'll learn that eventually. lol As for me, I am mature and responsible enough to take care of my own business and make my own decisions and I certainly do not need anybody's approval in order to be happy with who I am. And eventually, my lovely and I will be together, whether it is before or after our child is born is irrelevant. Whether people think I'm a screw up or not, or that I messed up when I should have known better, is completely irrelevant to me.

So chill Gary! And thank you again to everybody.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Gary, USCIS does NOT have to issue an RFE before denying a petition. There have been numerous cases ON THIS SITE where USCIS has denied a petition simply because the petitioner did not provide the documents described in the instructions. For instance, if the US citizen petitioner provides only the I-129F and nothing else, the petition will be denied - no RFE will be issued for the remaining documents. I can find numerous BIA cases where the petitioner submitted the required documents ON APPEAL, and not in response to an RFE. But, of course, that won't be good enough for you. You want cases where someone declared in their filing that they were ineligible, and the petition was denied. Fair enough.

In this case, the petitioner declared he had not met his fiancee at the time of filing, asked for a waiver due to financial hardship, and admitted he could refile after his upcoming planned trip to visit his fiancee. His petition was denied without RFE.

In this case, the petitioner admitted he was married to the beneficiary, and even provided a copy of the marriage certificate with the petition. No I-130 had been previously submitted. His petition was denied without RFE.

Please do not respond by telling me that these BIA cases do not specifically mention "cover letters" or other informal statements. You and I both know that the summary descriptions in a BIA decision are terse, and likely wouldn't state where exactly in a petition package a particular piece of information would have been found. However, they DO usually mention if a request for evidence was ever issued, and how the petitioner responded to that request.

Thank you for making we wade through a few dozen BIA cases for this. If needed, I'll wade through several dozen more. My challenge to you will be somewhat kinder. I defy you to find any mention in the INA, CFR, or FAM that states that an RFE must be issued before any petition may be denied, especially when the petitioner has STATED they are clearly ineligible at the time of filing. Your further challenge is to present your findings in a way that neither demonstrates your air of superiority and absolute confidence that you are more educated than any other member of this board, nor goes out of your way to humiliate and belittle the OP because they obviously made a mistake.

The ball is now in your court.

[kennym 275]

Unbelievable!!

I am really surprised as to how childish this forum is becoming.. I've got to beleive people can post thier questions without insults..

Kenny

Edited May 17, 2010 by kennym

[twowls 217]

Where's the popcorn-eating emoticon? Because I'm the queen of schadenfreude, but what is the point of this? It's a pissing match, right?

I will say though that in starting our journey with the amazing people here, we remained *despite* certain instances of harshness on the part of some members. It almost drove us away as we, like many human organisms, possess a modicum of self esteem and don't like to be condescended to or dismissed with borderline contempt for being fallible or inexperienced. Surely that's not the aim of any of the experts here. Surely you are here because you want to help. So it may be worth considering how the alienation factor assists or does not assist in that goal, the goal of helping others.

Disclaimer: I love curmudgeons. But we can all tweak a word or two to soften the scorn. It helps the info sink in rather than erecting a wall through which good advice must fight to be heard and absorbed. In this sense, it's far more efficient and logical to be patient and kind.