LA Votes in Favor of Arizona Boycott

[The_Dude 1,142]

The underlying problem with immigration law enforcement that remains to be addressed is funding ICE, and congress needs to stop being pussies and mandate prohibitive punitive damages for employers who hire illegal immigrants, coupled with a mandated use of e-verify for employers. Sorry, if you don't address the demand side of this equation, people will keep coming across the border, no matter what the consequences are.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why do you support the exploitation of Hispanics? why do you support human trafficking to profit greedy American business men? Why are you against minimum wage? why are you against workman's compensation? Why are you against ALL workers having safeguards for themselves or their families? Would you accept this for yourself or your wife? Would you work for less than minimum wage because you are "not from here" Should you be denied workman's comp if you get injured at work? Or do you just want brown people to be denied these things?

A couple years ago they found 21 illegal Chinese, men and women sharing a home in Essex, Vermont. They had been brought here to work in restaraunts for tips only. Their "wages" were confiscated to pay what they "owed" for being brought here. The women and men sharing one bathroom in this house were illegals, but no one checked their IDs...good thing we didn't violate their privacy rights. The women were "allowed" to "earn" extra money by providing sexual services to the business owners and their friends. Imagine my surprise when I found this out! Who would even think a woman illegal alien would be exploited for sex? Who would imagine? Of course they did not contribute to SS or medicare, they had no workman's comp for on the job injuries or illnesses, or even STDs, imagine that! Family and medical leave in case they are pregnant, what do you suppose?

But you and all the people that support the "rights" of illegals promote this. Why? Do you hate illegal aliens? Do you hate minimum wage and just want to find a way so businesses do not have to pay it? Do you hate worker's benefits?

Are YOU exploiting humans in your business and don't want your source of cheap labor ended? I mean, what is it that you would be against enforcing labor laws?

Erm, where exactly did you draw these conclusions from Gary?

Yes, I know that your opinion is that exploiting illegal labour is discriminatory and racist, I get that. But you aren't exactly going to get me to talk about it if you're going to accuse me of holding opinions that I don't.

Sorry mate but your argument works both ways. From now on when you mention anything like socioeconomics, I am just going to pull a Marylin and Pike and say well not all minorities are poor, so I don't care - you're generalizing. So when you tell me, for example, two out of three in poverty are minorities, I will simply ask 'if it's 50% of minorities', othwerwise I don't care nor does it mean anything.

Thankfully that sort of idiocy is not common in the real world.

BY, all I want to know is what you think that law enforcement should do with a 1/100 probability.

Do you believe that that makes for a useful means of determining whether or not a random latino is a gang member?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hint hint, they are called illegal immigrants because they are engaging in criminality by trespassing in the US, taking jobs and public benefits they aren't entitled to have. They are criminals, and should not have our empathy or support. I don't care what color they are, and I'm sick of White guilt being used as a weapon to avoid dealing with them like any other criminal would be. If brown people are the most vulnerable, it's because they have become identified as perpetrators and supporters of lawbreaking, rioting in the streets to demand that we give them a pass and our tax dollars.

I'm brown and Arab and Muslim, but I'm no more sympathetic to Muslim lawbreakers than I am to brown lawbreakers. I will never understand why people who only want the laws enforced are villified and those who break laws are deemed heroic, especially by people who went thru legal immigration. They, their employers and our government owe us an apology, and I'll be damned if I owe them an ounce of pity. Bad acts should have consequences. Time has come to pay and payback is a b!tch.

They are called "illegal immigrants" by stupid people. The level of stupidity on this issue confounds me over and over. I hear new stupid stuff every day. Most recently some person that hates brown people and wants to continue their exploitation called them "Undocumented citizens" !!!! #######!!!!!!!!

Immigration is not illegal. Immigrants are not illegal. My wife is an immigrant. There is no need to say she is a "legal immigrant". It is redundant, facetious and just plain stupid. It demonstartes a lack of knowledge of immigration and the language and I lack knowledge in either area. Immigrants are legal. Calling someone that breaks into our country an "illegal immigrant" is like calling a crack dealer an "undocumented pharmacist". How stupid do you have to be to bite off on this one? The very use of any term other than "illegal alien" simply demostrates to all a person's complete, willing disregard of the facts. Such people should be ignored from the point they first mention the term "illegal immigrant". They have no clue what they are talking about.

The issue is economic. Period. We do not need walls or fences. We do not need ICE, they do not need a "budget" for ICE. (at least not for 99% of illegal aliens). We could just call them "CE" though it is not as catchy as "ICE" I admit and therein lies the biggest flaw in my argument. At least someone that wants to exploit brown people would argue that no doubt.

We simply need to end the economic incentive to exploit illegal aliens. Yes, of course, ANYONE should have to show they are legally in the country to receive ANY taxpayer paid benefit. Duh! That includes ME. That would also, now, include medical care, except lifesaving medical care. The health care act specifically excludes people illegally in this country. Just as my homeowners insurance excludes burglars from liability coverage. Big surprise. Burglars are not "illegal dinner guests"

It is beyond my comprehension that people normally in favor of "workers rights" and people that "stand up for the little guy" (Democrats by reference for those that use the term "illegal immigrants") would be so willing to look the other way when these little guys are horribly exploited.

Let an oil company make a profit and there will be congrssional hearings! Let contractors all over the country buy day labor at Home Depots in what resembles a slave auction every morning (except that the slaves compete to REDUCE their price!)..."Oh, that's OK, we don't want to infringe on their 4th amendment rights" or "those good people are only here to do jobs Americans won't do" What? Construction? I have been in construction for 35 years and have never had a problem to hire Americans. I WOULD have a problem hiring Americans if I paid $3-4 per hour, no benefits, no safety equipment, worked them 60 hours per week with no overtime, no paid vacation, no health benefits, no workman's comp., no liability insurance...get the picture? Illegal aliens do the work you would never allow your immigrant spouses to do. You all went through the process to get Green cards for your spouses. Why? Because you wanted to be good citizens? Bullsh*t! You did so THEY don't get exploited and underpaid. You did it so THEY get all the opportunities available to Americans. The ROI for legal immigrants is incalcuable and only really stupid people complain about the $1010 AOS fee. A brake job can cost $1000 for goodness sakes. What is the return on that compared to a green card?

The fact is the politicians are using the illegals as much as the contractors. Democrats want to give them amnesty and a path to citizenship (a path to unemployment and welfare) and wish they could do so before this years elections. Republicans want to keep them as an underclass so Republicans can occasionally look "good" by voting for minimum wage laws...secure in the knowledge that there is an underclass to work cheaper.

The rest of us argue over silly, stupid points that the politicians feed to us like bubble gum to chew on. All sorts of kooky talk about rights, criminals, drug dealers, welfare, human dignity...ad nauseum. And at least 70% of us eat it up and debate the BS between us.

Here is how to fix the problem, NOTHING else will work. No debate needed.

1. Severely penalize with civil and criminal penalties anyone that exploits illegal aliens and violates labor laws. Confiscate their business, their home (for people that hire illegals for landscaping and nannies) and whatever other property is needed to pay the penalty. Then prosecute them criminally.

2. Documentation of legal presence recorded for ANY person seeking government benefits

3. Documentation of legal presence for ANY person seeking to enroll in ANY educational institution

The illegals WILL walk back to wherever they came from, not because there are jobs there, but because there are NO jobs here. We should NOT fence them in. We should build convenient foot bridges where necessary

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Erm, where exactly did you draw these conclusions from Gary?

Yes, I know that your opinion is that exploiting illegal labour is discriminatory and racist, I get that. But you aren't exactly going to get me to talk about it if you're going to accuse me of holding opinions that I don't.

BY, all I want to know is what you think that law enforcement should do with a 1/100 probability.

Do you believe that that makes for a useful means of determining whether or not a random latino is a gang member?

Oh stop the phony outrage. Do you or do you not support severe penalties for those that exploit illegals aliens and scoff at our labor laws?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh stop the phony outrage. Do you or do you not support severe penalties for those that exploit illegals aliens and scoff at our labor laws?

Yes I do.

But that wasn't what I was talking about.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes I do.

But that wasn't what I was talking about.

Then you weren't talking about solving the problem. But I am glad we agree. Aren't you?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then you weren't talking about solving the problem. But I am glad we agree. Aren't you?

Oh you mean accusing me of holding opinions that I don't because you were too lazy to read the whole thread?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Oh you mean accusing me of holding opinions that I don't because you were too lazy to read the whole thread?

Do we or do we not agree that employers that exploit illegals and scoof at labor laws should be severly penalized to the point that is is economical suicide to do so? OR, do you support the exploitation of illegals for profit by American employers?

Simple question.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Do we or do we not agree that employers that exploit illegals and scoof at labor laws should be severly penalized to the point that is is economical suicide to do so? OR, do you support the exploitation of illegals for profit by American employers?

Simple question.

Yes, a simple question which I already answered. Quite unamibiguously I might add.

Why do you want to change the subject when it was clear if you had read the entire thread that the conversation you horned in on had jack $hit to do with what you want to talk about?

[SMOKE 1,426]

The underlying problem with immigration law enforcement that remains to be addressed is funding ICE, and congress needs to stop being pussies and mandate prohibitive punitive damages for employers who hire illegal immigrants, coupled with a mandated use of e-verify for employers. Sorry, if you don't address the demand side of this equation, people will keep coming across the border, no matter what the consequences are.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes, a simple question which I already answered. Quite unamibiguously I might add.

Why do you want to change the subject when it was clear if you had read the entire thread that the conversation you horned in on had jack $hit to do with what you want to talk about?

The topic of the thread is the stupid Arizona law and they even more stupid boycot of the state by LA. The topic of the thread is illegal aliens. I have discussed ONLY that.

Crime statistics, news about gang mamebers and general inane one liners have nothing to do with the topic. They are used by people who do not want to address the issue and keep the "problem" for whatever their personal gain is.

I am glad we agree that an economical soultion to an economical problem is what we need.

With such braod based agreement one has to wonder...why isn't anyone doing anything about it? Ever wonder that?

Instead of this obviously stupid law, I would much rather have seen Arizona pass a law implementing a $500,000 TAX for any employer that hires a person not authorized to work in the State of Arizona.

"Any employer not following the labor and employment laws of the United States shall be taxed $500,000 for each violation"

Obama and Pelosi will look like this....

LA would look like this for boycotting

The mood over at La Raza would be...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Do we or do we not agree that calculating an arbitrary statistical probability of a latino person's likelihood of being a member of a gang is completely useless to law enforcement from a practical perspective; or do you agree with BY that using such reasoning as justification for wholesale racial profiling is perfectly fine and dandy?

Simple question.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Do we or do we not agree that calculating an arbitrary statistical probability of a latino person's likelihood of being a member of a gang is completely useless to law enforcement from a practical perspective; or do you agree with BY that using such reasoning as justification for wholesale racial profiling is perfectly fine and dandy?

Simple question.

I will answer your question. I couldn't possibly care less. Agreeing with statistics or not has exactly jack-sh*t to do with any problem discussed in the topis of this thread and I won't do it.

I do not care what race someone is, it is not an issue for me. LAwe enforcementr has the tools they need to arrest criminals. They have had them for years. the new Arizona law is not a tool for law enforcement, nor is it a tool to prevent illegal aliens from breaking into our country. Your point is moot, irrelevent, incoherent. I am not going to spend my time on it.

Please answer my question.

Do you agree with me that the employers of illegals should be severely penalized to make the practice economical suicide...OR do you support the continued exploitation of illegals?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I will answer your question. I couldn't possibly care less. Agreeing with statistics or not has exactly jack-sh*t to do with any problem discussed in the topis of this thread and I won't do it.

I do not care what race someone is, it is not an issue for me. LAwe enforcementr has the tools they need to arrest criminals. They have had them for years. the new Arizona law is not a tool for law enforcement, nor is it a tool to prevent illegal aliens from breaking into our country. Your point is moot, irrelevent, incoherent. I am not going to spend my time on it.

Please answer my question.

Do you agree with me that the employers of illegals should be severely penalized to make the practice economical suicide...OR do you support the continued exploitation of illegals?

But... I already answered your question, despite it having nothing to do with what I was talking about (before you horned in and accused me outright of holding opinions that I don't).

Now this is what I want to talk about - why won't you answer my question

Do we or do we not agree that calculating an arbitrary statistical probability of a latino person's likelihood of being a member of a gang is completely useless to law enforcement from a practical perspective; or do you agree with BY that using such reasoning as justification for wholesale racial profiling is perfectly fine and dandy?

Edited May 13, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Ning 619]

Most lations in arizona support the law? Come on now smoke, don't pull a BY by making up statistics here.

I am actually not in favor of this boycott by the city, but not for the reasons that you'd think. This will cost the city money, plain and simple. If a contract is put out for bids, but the city is mandated not to accept any bids from an Arizona company, that could raise the total cost. Villaraigosa is a douche, he has cost the city millions in lawsuits and mismanaged funds, but he looks good on camera, and that got him the job.

In several polls taken in Az 70% of the people are in favor of the new law. Those arent made up statistics. It is true that most legal latinos in Az approve the new law. There are about 450 thousand illegal Mexicans in Az at this time. Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the USA due to the Mexican drug cartel influence. The recent killing of a rancher by illegals is thought to have been done by the cartel because he had complained to immigration about people using his ranch to bring drugs across. A few weeks later a sherrif deputy was shot in the area. People here are tired of this situation & therefore in favor of anything that will help. Illegals interviewed on T V have said they are moving out of Az to avoid deportation. Hopefully they will move to California where Villaraigosa can watch over them.