Obama policy shift - one more step towards ending the war on drugs

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Bingo! That's one of the biggest benefits of legalizing drugs. You'd pull the rug right from under their feet.

Of course, we're not actually talking about legalization here. We're talking about moving the money spent on this "war" from the criminal justice aspect to the public health aspect, achieving a de facto decriminalization to some extent.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Of course, we're not actually talking about legalization here. We're talking about moving the money spent on this "war" from the criminal justice aspect to the public health aspect, achieving a de facto decriminalization to some extent.

Well, we know that America isn't taking big steps anymore. We're kind of timid these days. Gotta take it a step at a time but at least we're walking in the right direction here - forward. However slow that walk might be.

[Heracles 417]

What works? The "war on drugs"? They don't exactly fight any such war in Europe. Their approach: less criminalization and more prevention and rehabilitation. That's not exactly a war, it's a winning strategy.

So why don't you go import cocaine into Germany then and tell me how it works out for you.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So why don't you go import cocaine into Germany then and tell me how it works out for you.

That's not the point, is it? However, doing this business in Germany is much less hazardous than it is in the US - the criminal justice system there is much softer than what you'd find here. What we're really talking about here is how the issue is approached on the other side of the equation - the addicts. They get treatment and support instead of useless jail time.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog

[Heracles 417]

So let me get this straight. You guys believe that by legalizing all drugs, crime rates will fall and the the country's expenditure will be reduced.

You look at Europe but conveniently ignore the reality that the majority of countries there do not have the same some sort of anything goes system - way of life or laws.

This is nothing new though. You guys will look at other country's health care but ignore the reality that I cannot willy-nilly sue in most.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So let me get this straight. You guys believe that by legalizing all drugs, crime rates will fall and the the country's expenditure will be reduced.

There's nothing wrong with going after the dealers or manufacturers. It doesn't have to be a free-for-all. Weed should be legal, though. What's the big deal with weed while we legally sell and tax alcohol and tobacco - each causing more damage than weed ever would. The point is that locking up the addicts solves absolutely nothing while it costs a shitload of cash.

[Heracles 417]

That's not the point, is it? However, doing this business in Germany is much less hazardous than it is in the US - the criminal justice system there is much softer than what you'd find here. What we're really talking about here is how the issue is approached on the other side of the equation - the addicts. They get treatment and support instead of useless jail time.

They also don't have US laws or the sheer volume of criminals or gangs the US has. As I have said, you find me the worst town in the US. You then allow the town to be both policed and run using Australia laws. I guarantee you the crime rate will fall. Anecdotal you say, I think not. Just look at Australia's homicide rate.

You guys also ignore two things. What's the level of drug abuse in various Asian countries or the Middle East, where trafficking is punishable by death? Not to mention, strange how we speak up against limiting access to guns, in order to reduce homicides and crime. Yet assume allowing easier access to drugs will somehow reduce it.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

They also don't have US laws or the sheer volume of criminals or gangs the US has. As I have said, you find me the worst town in the US. You then allow the town to be both policed and run using Australia laws. I guarantee you the crime rate will fall. Anecdotal you say, I think not. Just look at Australia's homicide rate.

You guys also ignore two things. What's the level of drug abuse in various Asian countries or the Middle East, where trafficking is punishable by death? Not to mention, strange how we speak up against limiting access to guns, in order to reduce homicides and crime. Yet assume allowing easier access to drugs will somehow reduce it.

The gun thing is constitutional and in many parts of the country, cultural. Even if it wasn't a constitutional right, the mere fact that we have a Senate which gives 2 seats to each state regardless of population combined with the fact that a large number of states have guns embedded into their culture, guarantees that serious gun restrictions are simply never going to happen at the Federal level.

[Heracles 417]

There's nothing wrong with going after the dealers or manufacturers. It doesn't have to be a free-for-all. Weed should be legal, though. What's the big deal with weed while we legally sell and tax alcohol and tobacco - each causing more damage than weed ever would. The point is that locking up the addicts solves absolutely nothing while it costs a shitload of cash.

Locking up addicts is definitely pointless. Going after and locking up drug dealers is what should happen. Once caught, everything they own should be confiscated and sold period. Any big-time dealer should be given the death penalty. Though, I would agree that weed should be legal for adults.

The war is not what failed, it's how it's fought that has failed. The war was never fought properly to be lost. It was smoke and mirrors. You mention resources but how much has really been allocated? Was the military used? Did the US threaten these big drug dealers abroad? Sure had no problem invading two countries but for some reason shake at the knees over Latin America; where the majority of narcotics come from.

[Heracles 417]

The gun thing is constitutional and in many parts of the country, cultural. Even if it wasn't a constitutional right, the mere fact that we have a Senate which gives 2 seats to each state regardless of population combined with the fact that a large number of states have guns embedded into their culture, guarantees that serious gun restrictions are simply never going to happen at the Federal level.

You missed the point. Why would restrictions work on one thing but the total opposite work for some other huge problem? And for the US, it is a huge problem.

People champion on freedom and the police having to move mountains to get something done, then say well this and that failed. Whereas, the reality is that in every other first world country, you don't have the same magnitude of problems (per capita) because you cannot literally do as you please there as you can. It's that simple. It's a trade-off between having law and order, a civilized society, or basically being able to do what you want. You cannot have you cake and eat it.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Booyah!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Locking up addicts is definitely pointless. Going after and locking up drug dealers is what should happen. Once caught, everything they own should be confiscated and sold period. Any big-time dealer should be given the death penalty. Though, I would agree that weed should be legal for adults.

The war is not what failed, it's how it's fought that has failed. The war was never fought properly to be lost. It was smoke and mirrors. You mention resources but how much has really been allocated? Was the military used? Did the US threaten these big drug dealers abroad? Sure had no problem invading two countries but for some reason shake at the knees over Latin America; where the majority of narcotics come from.

"Latin America" is a big, big, big place.

[Heracles 417]

"Latin America" is a big, big, big place.

The drugs are coming from a few specific countries.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The drugs are coming from a few specific countries.

Yes, countries which are also among our biggest trading partners. The military is a tool, but like all tools not every problem is best solved with it.

[Heracles 417]

Yes, countries which are also among our biggest trading partners. The military is a tool, but like all tools not every problem is best solved with it.

You mean Mexico? 11.7% of America's exports go towards Mexico. America's largest trading partner import/export is the EU.

The Mexican people are suffering as much as Americans are. Time those UAV are put to some proper use.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Booyah!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Yes, countries which are also among our biggest trading partners.

You mean Mexico? 11.7% of America's exports go towards Mexico. America's largest trading partner import/export is the EU.

I said "among our largest".

According to the Census Bureau, Mexico is our 3rd largest trading partner for the month of February 2010. Canada and China are #1 and #2, respectively.