what we still don't understand

[jordanianprincess 0]

It seems to me that there are several people here that think the way CNN wants them too. With that said, its obvious that no one here supports terrorism, there is however a difference in opinion regarding whether Hezballah is a terrorist group. Showing us the USA's definition of what a terrorist group is just shows us that is the USA's opinion on it, there are plently of other countries and people that disagree with this. It's also quite apparent that there is a huge lack of understanding from the people on this board of the situation at hand. It really saddens me that there is no value of arab life to people in the world and people on this board.

People want to argue their opinions about Hizballah and Israel and if we come to defend or speak our opinions we are called "mean girls" and "terrorists" and "terror supporters". So basically anyone that disagrees with you gets catogorized there?

Its funny how us "mean girls" continue to post articles and facts to englighten others. No one ever responds to these, instead they are just picked apart and the same comments made over and over.

I'd really like to see if these debates can be more constructive and less emotional. I don't mind hearing peoples points about Isreal, but please absorb some of the information that is posted and stop the attacks.

it's one thing to "enlighten" as you call it, it's another to continue a full scale propaganda campaign as many seem to be doing.

Why is a propaganda campaign when we are just disputing what is said in the threads that are made here? Its not a propaganda campaign when everyone else is posting anti-arab articles, cartoons, blog websites, and threads?

[mawilson 2,133]

And yet up until a few years ago the IRA did not

Man, l wish you'd stop comparing the IRA with the likes of Hezbollah.

The IRA have never launched a single rocket into UK mainland, never mind hundreds

of rockets a day; and I don't doubt for a second that the Army would have intervened

with tanks and troops and warplanes had they ever attempted to do so.

[Ban Hammer 13,645]

It seems to me that there are several people here that think the way CNN wants them too. With that said, its obvious that no one here supports terrorism, there is however a difference in opinion regarding whether Hezballah is a terrorist group. Showing us the USA's definition of what a terrorist group is just shows us that is the USA's opinion on it, there are plently of other countries and people that disagree with this. It's also quite apparent that there is a huge lack of understanding from the people on this board of the situation at hand. It really saddens me that there is no value of arab life to people in the world and people on this board.

People want to argue their opinions about Hizballah and Israel and if we come to defend or speak our opinions we are called "mean girls" and "terrorists" and "terror supporters". So basically anyone that disagrees with you gets catogorized there?

Its funny how us "mean girls" continue to post articles and facts to englighten others. No one ever responds to these, instead they are just picked apart and the same comments made over and over.

I'd really like to see if these debates can be more constructive and less emotional. I don't mind hearing peoples points about Isreal, but please absorb some of the information that is posted and stop the attacks.

it's one thing to "enlighten" as you call it, it's another to continue a full scale propaganda campaign as many seem to be doing.

Why is a propaganda campaign when we are just disputing what is said in the threads that are made here? Its not a propaganda campaign when everyone else is posting anti-arab articles, cartoons, blog websites, and threads?

mean girls propaganda style

[mawilson 2,133]

If Israel intentions are not to kill civilians, they are failing miserably.

Give me a break. If Israel's intentions were to kill civilians, they would have killed a lot more by now.

[Fandango 1,440]

Like immigration, it is all about intent. If the intent is to kill civilians...that's quite different than accidentally doing it. If hezballah is firing missles into crowds of civilians, I can't understand how anyone can retort with 'well Israelis have killed civilians so fair's fair'

that's just insane

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And yet up until a few years ago the IRA did not

Man, l wish you'd stop comparing the IRA with the likes of Hezbollah.

The IRA have never launched a single rocket into UK mainland, never mind hundreds

of rockets a day; and I don't doubt for a second that the Army would have intervened

with tanks and troops and warplanes had they ever attempted to do so.

I'm not comparing them. You offered a definition (under US law) of what a terrorist is. The IRA are/were a terrorist group, but for certain political reasons they were not on the US' list of recognised terrorist groups up until relatively recently.

It's not an absolute definition, its a question of perspective.

The Mujahadeen weren't considered "terrorist" when they were killing the russians in Afghanistan - only when they started attacking America.

Edited August 7, 2006 by erekose

[jordanianprincess 0]

It seems to me that there are several people here that think the way CNN wants them too. With that said, its obvious that no one here supports terrorism, there is however a difference in opinion regarding whether Hezballah is a terrorist group. Showing us the USA's definition of what a terrorist group is just shows us that is the USA's opinion on it, there are plently of other countries and people that disagree with this. It's also quite apparent that there is a huge lack of understanding from the people on this board of the situation at hand. It really saddens me that there is no value of arab life to people in the world and people on this board.

People want to argue their opinions about Hizballah and Israel and if we come to defend or speak our opinions we are called "mean girls" and "terrorists" and "terror supporters". So basically anyone that disagrees with you gets catogorized there?

Its funny how us "mean girls" continue to post articles and facts to englighten others. No one ever responds to these, instead they are just picked apart and the same comments made over and over.

I'd really like to see if these debates can be more constructive and less emotional. I don't mind hearing peoples points about Isreal, but please absorb some of the information that is posted and stop the attacks.

it's one thing to "enlighten" as you call it, it's another to continue a full scale propaganda campaign as many seem to be doing.

Why is a propaganda campaign when we are just disputing what is said in the threads that are made here? Its not a propaganda campaign when everyone else is posting anti-arab articles, cartoons, blog websites, and threads?

mean girls propaganda style

The same can be said for what you post, its just a matter of opinion.

[Jenn! 918]

It seems to me that there are several people here that think the way CNN wants them too. With that said, its obvious that no one here supports terrorism, there is however a difference in opinion regarding whether Hezballah is a terrorist group. Showing us the USA's definition of what a terrorist group is just shows us that is the USA's opinion on it, there are plently of other countries and people that disagree with this. It's also quite apparent that there is a huge lack of understanding from the people on this board of the situation at hand. It really saddens me that there is no value of arab life to people in the world and people on this board.

People want to argue their opinions about Hizballah and Israel and if we come to defend or speak our opinions we are called "mean girls" and "terrorists" and "terror supporters". So basically anyone that disagrees with you gets catogorized there?

Its funny how us "mean girls" continue to post articles and facts to englighten others. No one ever responds to these, instead they are just picked apart and the same comments made over and over.

I'd really like to see if these debates can be more constructive and less emotional. I don't mind hearing peoples points about Isreal, but please absorb some of the information that is posted and stop the attacks.

it's one thing to "enlighten" as you call it, it's another to continue a full scale propaganda campaign as many seem to be doing.

Why is a propaganda campaign when we are just disputing what is said in the threads that are made here? Its not a propaganda campaign when everyone else is posting anti-arab articles, cartoons, blog websites, and threads?

mean girls propaganda style

Talk about crazy conspiracy theories!

And just who do you suppose is the teacher?

They are instructed on what to say, how to say it, where to send it, and how to make it appear that their indignation, appreciation, joy, or hate is entirely spontaneous and independent; thus being "real" emotions and concerns rather than the product of an orchestrated campaign.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Like immigration, it is all about intent. If the intent is to kill civilians...that's quite different than accidentally doing it. If hezballah is firing missles into crowds of civilians, I can't understand how anyone can retort with 'well Israelis have killed civilians so fair's fair'

that's just insane

The problem you can have so many 'accidents' that people think you are either doing it on purpose or worse, that you simply don't care. Either way its good for Hezbollah and its backers (who are winning this conflict on a propagandistic level), less good for Israel.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

mean girls propaganda style

From your own link:

Astroturfing techniques usually consist of a few people discreetly posing as mass numbers of activists advocating a specific cause. Supporters or employees will manipulate the degree of interest through letters to the editor, e-mails, blog posts, crossposts, trackbacks, etc. They are instructed on what to say, how to say it, where to send it, and how to make it appear that their indignation, appreciation, joy, or hate is entirely spontaneous and independent; thus being "real" emotions and concerns rather than the product of an orchestrated campaign. Local newspapers are often victims of astroturfing, by publishing letters that are identical to letters other newspapers have received.

Now which VJ members here are making up new accounts to make it appear as if their ideas have a larger support base than in reality, and posting nothing except the most virulent of anti-Muslim propaganda ? Risto comes to mind; and RCH99 did the same thing last year, making up a new account just to agree with himself. (I believe CindyShah, and others, can confirm that incident.)

So who here is "posing" as "mass numbers of activists advocating a specific cause" ? All the ME/NA people are long-established, and are using their original accounts.

It seems that you don't actually understand the meaning of "astroturfing," although you throw the term around here frequently, in what seems to be a laughable attempt to insult people who don't agree with you.

[jordanianprincess 0]

If Israel intentions are not to kill civilians, they are failing miserably.

Give me a break. If Israel's intentions were to kill civilians, they would have killed a lot more by now.

So the 900 people that are dead , 3000 wounded, and 1 million displaced is not enough? Compare that to 62 Israli deaths which around 24 were civilians. (These numbers were as of Thursday)

Its not even a fair fight.

[Bosco 1]

Like immigration, it is all about intent. If the intent is to kill civilians...that's quite different than accidentally doing it. If hezballah is firing missles into crowds of civilians, I can't understand how anyone can retort with 'well Israelis have killed civilians so fair's fair'

that's just insane

I think it is insane to think that all the civilians killed by Israel so far have been "accidents". If that is the case, they may be the most accident prone nation to have ever existed. I also think there is sufficient evidence to support that they are often targetting places when they know that Hezbollah will be long gone or the intelligence is weak at best.

Iraeli Pilots deliberately missing targets

Yesha Rabbinical Council: No innocents

Yesha Rabbinical Council: During time of war, enemy has no innocents

The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna that "according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as 'innocents' of the enemy."

All of the discussions on Christian morality are weakening the spirit of the army and the nation and are costing us in the blood of our soldiers and civilians," the statement said. (Efrat Weiss)

[Ban Hammer 13,645]

The same can be said for what you post, its just a matter of opinion.

yet i am not jewish nor do i have a dog in the fight. no relative there or anything. see a difference?

Now which VJ members here are making up new accounts to make it appear as if their ideas have a larger support base than in reality, and posting nothing except the most virulent of anti-Muslim propaganda ? Risto comes to mind; and RCH99 did the same thing last year, making up a new account just to agree with himself. (I believe CindyShah, and others, can confirm that incident.)

So who here is "posing" as "mass numbers of activists advocating a specific cause" ? All the ME/NA people are long-established, and are using their original accounts.

It seems that you don't actually understand the meaning of "astroturfing," although you throw the term around here frequently, in what seems to be a laughable attempt to insult people who don't agree with you.

ah yes, 2 versus how many? and how many of you post on and on about the poor palestinians, all completely one sided? the statement stands and you prove it day in and day out.

If Israel intentions are not to kill civilians, they are failing miserably.

Give me a break. If Israel's intentions were to kill civilians, they would have killed a lot more by now.

So the 900 people that are dead , 3000 wounded, and 1 million displaced is not enough? Compare that to 62 Israli deaths which around 24 were civilians. (These numbers were as of Thursday)

Its not even a fair fight.

where do you get the warped idea war is supposed to be a fair fight?

Edited August 7, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[jordanianprincess 0]

The same can be said for what you post, its just a matter of opinion.

yet i am not jewish nor do i have a dog in the fight. no relative there or anything. see a difference?

And I am not Jewish, Lebanese, Muslim, or a member of Hizballah...so what is your point?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Now which VJ members here are making up new accounts to make it appear as if their ideas have a larger support base than in reality, and posting nothing except the most virulent of anti-Muslim propaganda ? Risto comes to mind; and RCH99 did the same thing last year, making up a new account just to agree with himself. (I believe CindyShah, and others, can confirm that incident.)

So who here is "posing" as "mass numbers of activists advocating a specific cause" ? All the ME/NA people are long-established, and are using their original accounts.

It seems that you don't actually understand the meaning of "astroturfing," although you throw the term around here frequently, in what seems to be a laughable attempt to insult people who don't agree with you.

ah yes, 2 versus how many? and how many of you post on and on about the poor palestinians, all completely one sided? the statement stands and you prove it day in and day out.

*You* are the one who repeatedly makes the accusation of "astroturfing." You posted the definition, but apparently didn't both to read it.

So I am asking you precisely *who* here is posing as multiple identities in order to "astroturf." If you can find more than the examples I gave, please list them.

If you can't do that, then you might at least learn a lesson from this -- that using "buzzwords" you don't even understand enough to use in a correct context is not a very smart tactic... it only makes your debates look uneducated and foolish.