what we still don't understand

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That seems a trifle melodramatic

After all, terrorism is just a label.

Edited August 7, 2006 by erekose

[Jenn! 918]

"Evil" is really a point of view - the religiosity of the conflict of course makes it easier to couch things in those terms, but ultimately it is a simplification.

There is a historical and political basis behind this, islamic fundamentalists seem to have taken over from the WW2 Nazis as the stereotypical (stupid) bad guys, which perhaps is why people keep comparing WW2 with the current world situation - despite the fact that they are uniquely different.

There's no 'right' or 'wrong'. Yeah, we get it. Have an opinion...

"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel."

----Robert Frost

Does having an opinion mean picking either Israel or Hezbollah and then defending it no matter what? Seeing shades of gray rather than strictly black or white does not indicate lack of opinion.

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

Edited August 7, 2006 by jenn3539

[almaty 19]

"Evil" is really a point of view - the religiosity of the conflict of course makes it easier to couch things in those terms, but ultimately it is a simplification.

There is a historical and political basis behind this, islamic fundamentalists seem to have taken over from the WW2 Nazis as the stereotypical (stupid) bad guys, which perhaps is why people keep comparing WW2 with the current world situation - despite the fact that they are uniquely different.

There's no 'right' or 'wrong'. Yeah, we get it. Have an opinion...

"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel."

----Robert Frost

Does having an opinion mean picking either Israel or Hezbollah and then defending it no matter what? Seeing shades of gray rather than strictly black or white does not indicate lack of opinion.

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

rich, smoke another lucky and chill

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

I wasn't saying Fishdude is (or was) a terrorist. I fault him for his complete lack of opinion. It's ok to say "I don't like terrorism". It's also ok to say "I don't like Israel". But to say "After all, terrorism is just a label" is just sad.

[Fuzzness 2]

killing sucks. terrorism sucks. violence sucks. israel and hezbolla both suck. hows that?

[Bosco 1]

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You seem to have very little understanding of Hezbollah. It is a political party. It has both civilian and military branches, although you would not know this from the news. Only the United States, Canada and Israel label the full organization as terrorist. A few other countries label the militia branch as terorrist.

Are funding hospitals, providing health care and running clinics terrorist acts? Providing people with water? Why is it so difficult to understand that the Lebanese people are no different than US citizens who often vote with their own interests? How many Americans vote on foreign policy alone? A Lebanese person "supporting" (thus voting for) Hezbollah could very well be doing so because they provide their child's education, health care, collect their trash and the numerous other social services they rely upon. To assume they automatically are a terrorist supporter is tunnel vision - like saying every George Bush supporter agrees with the war and every aspect of the war - including Abu Ghraib and the alleged rape of the 14 year old.

No one here has EVER condoned attacks on civilians or other acts of terrorism. However, the labels and generalizations that are thrown around here are ridiculous.

Additionally, many of us find state sponsored terrorism equally abhorent to that of Hezbollah or any other group.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

I wasn't saying Fishdude is (or was) a terrorist. I fault him for his complete lack of opinion. It's ok to say "I don't like terrorism". It's also ok to say "I don't like Israel". But to say "After all, terrorism is just a label" is just sad.

For those with very short memories, here is my opinion from page 2:

My opinion is that boths sides are at fault for the current situation for reasons that predate this particular incident, and are propagandising it for their own purposes.

Common sense dictates that short of massive genocide, neither of these people's are going anywhere and must find some way to co-exist, preferably peacefully.

I don't see a problem with condemning Hezbollah (and its backers) for firing missiles indiscriminately into civilian areas with Israel, but I'm not about to jump up and cheer when Israel's response is to lay waste to an entire region, and kill or forcibly relocate hundreds of thousands of people to God knows where, and destroying an infrastructure that has taken 15 years to rebuild.

I don't believe in the school of "your either with us or with the terrorists". Such people have as limited an understanding of terrorism as they do of the democracy they calm to defend.

Edited August 7, 2006 by erekose

[Jenn! 918]

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

I wasn't saying Fishdude is (or was) a terrorist. I fault him for his complete lack of opinion. It's ok to say "I don't like terrorism". It's also ok to say "I don't like Israel". But to say "After all, terrorism is just a label" is just sad.

So then who are you planning on reporting to DHS?

That's a very serious threat you made.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

I wasn't saying Fishdude is (or was) a terrorist. I fault him for his complete lack of opinion. It's ok to say "I don't like terrorism". It's also ok to say "I don't like Israel". But to say "After all, terrorism is just a label" is just sad.

So then who are you planning on reporting to DHS?

That's a very serious threat you made.

I'm making a 'list'.

[mawilson 2,133]

That seems a trifle melodramatic

After all, terrorism is just a label.

It's not. The Immigration and Nationality Act (Section 212(a)(3)(B)) clearly defines terrorism as "any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following:

(I) The highjacking or sabotage of any conveyance (including an aircraft, vessel, or vehicle).

(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained.

(III) A violent attack upon an internationally protected person (as defined in section 1116(b)(4) of title 18, United States Code) or upon the liberty of such a person.

(IV) An assassination.

(V) The use of any--

(a) biological agent, chemical agent, or nuclear weapon or device, or

(b) explosive, firearm, or other weapon or dangerous device (other than for mere personal monetary gain), with intent to endanger, directly or indirectly, the safety of one or more individuals or to cause substantial damage to property.

(VI) A threat, attempt, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing."

Hezbollah clearly falls under this definition.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That seems a trifle melodramatic

After all, terrorism is just a label.

It's not. The Immigration and Nationality Act (Section 212(a)(3)(B)) clearly defines terrorism as "any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following:

(I) The highjacking or sabotage of any conveyance (including an aircraft, vessel, or vehicle).

(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained.

(III) A violent attack upon an internationally protected person (as defined in section 1116(B)(4) of title 18, United States Code) or upon the liberty of such a person.

(IV) An assassination.

(V) The use of any--

(a) biological agent, chemical agent, or nuclear weapon or device, or

(B) explosive, firearm, or other weapon or dangerous device (other than for mere personal monetary gain), with intent to endanger, directly or indirectly, the safety of one or more individuals or to cause substantial damage to property.

(VI) A threat, attempt, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing."

Hezbollah clearly falls under this definition.

And yet up until a few years ago the IRA did not

[Fuzzness 2]

so does Israel

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

You understand that Hezbollah are terrorists. right? Is ANYONE on this board going to back terrorists? I would keep this a secret from the USCIS. You people act like Hezbollah is a country. I can understand supporting Lebanon though.

I'm not asking people to support Israel. But I am asking people not to support terrorism. I WILL CONTACT THE USCIS AND THE DHS IF I FEEL THE NEED.

You've got to be kidding me. Where in Fishdude's post did he support terrorism? I think you ARE asking people to support Israel, because it seems if they do not, then you assume they support terrorism and you will report them to DHS.

I wasn't saying Fishdude is (or was) a terrorist. I fault him for his complete lack of opinion. It's ok to say "I don't like terrorism". It's also ok to say "I don't like Israel". But to say "After all, terrorism is just a label" is just sad.

So then who are you planning on reporting to DHS?

That's a very serious threat you made.

know anyone who's worried?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I don't see a problem with condemning Hezbollah (and its backers) for firing missiles indiscriminately into civilian areas with Israel,

Quite a BOLD statement. But do YOU actually condemn Hezbollah 'for firing missiles indiscriminately into civilian areas with Israel'? "I don't see a problem with.." is just another way for you to beat around the bush.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm making a 'list'.

That's quite a turn around to someone who appeared, on the surface, at any rate to be rather liberal with regards to free of speech.

I don't see a problem with condemning Hezbollah (and its backers) for firing missiles indiscriminately into civilian areas with Israel,

Quite a BOLD statement. But do YOU actually condemn Hezbollah 'for firing missiles indiscriminately into civilian areas with Israel'? "I don't see a problem with.." is just another way for you to beat around the bush.

What exactly do you want me to say?