what we still don't understand

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Can't we awl just git along????

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

No actually. Lebanon wants every israely out of lebanon including Shabaa farms, All the lebanese prisoners held in Iraels jails out, and the maps to mines that Isreal planted when it occupied lebanon between 82 and 2000. This resolution that was drawn up was isrealy demands and no comprimise. It is not aduptable. It will never work. It is racist and biased and we are nobody's b*tch.

so she says as israel slaps lebanon around and calls it susan

[lostinlove228 0]

Isreal isn't really playing fair first of all. Lets see how long they last in a ground fight. They keep reporting that 1 soldier is wounded and one is dead when in actually they have lost hundereds of soldiers so far. With all there technology they haven't made a dent in what they want to achieve. There is still an average of 200 rockets going over every day. Man with those billion dollar planes, they seem to have a lot of melfunctions. With these tough soldiers it's funny how on Arabic TV they have showed them running out crying like little girls. It's funny that all there power and they still have not made that much progress. Damm the Israel's are some tough B*tches.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Isreal isn't really playing fair first of all. Lets see how long they last in a ground fight. They keep reporting that 1 soldier is wounded and one is dead when in actually they have lost hundereds of soldiers so far. With all there technology they haven't made a dent in what they want to achieve. There is still an average of 200 rockets going over every day. Man with those billion dollar planes, they seem to have a lot of melfunctions. With these tough soldiers it's funny how on Arabic TV they have showed them running out crying like little girls. It's funny that all there power and they still have not made that much progress. Damm the Israel's are some tough B*tches.

playing fair? what do you define as fair? it's interesting that you state that when all over yahoo news this morning there are pictures of more rockets being fired into israel.

billion dollar planes - what billion dollar planes? the f-16 cost US$18.8 million in 1998.

[lostinlove228 0]

I define solidier against soldier fair. I ground war away from civilians. I call allowing humanitarian aid to come in to people who need it fair. These Air strikes are just massacres. Thats what they are. Isreal is murdering the Lebanese people. yes the rockets will still be flying as long as Isreal is targeting civilians. The American news by the way is a bunch of lies. Believe it if you want, but the fact is that what Isreal is doing is Evil.

[chri'stina 190]

I define solidier against soldier fair. I ground war away from civilians. I call allowing humanitarian aid to come in to people who need it fair. These Air strikes are just massacres. Thats what they are. Isreal is murdering the Lebanese people. yes the rockets will still be flying as long as Isreal is targeting civilians. The American news by the way is a bunch of lies. Believe it if you want, but the fact is that what Isreal is doing is Evil.

and what hezbollah is doing is not at all evil?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Evil" is really a point of view - the religiosity of the conflict of course makes it easier to couch things in those terms, but ultimately it is a simplification.

There is a historical and political basis behind this, islamic fundamentalists seem to have taken over from the WW2 Nazis as the stereotypical (stupid) bad guys, which perhaps is why people keep comparing WW2 with the current world situation - despite the fact that they are uniquely different.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I define solidier against soldier fair. I ground war away from civilians. I call allowing humanitarian aid to come in to people who need it fair. These Air strikes are just massacres. Thats what they are. Isreal is murdering the Lebanese people. yes the rockets will still be flying as long as Isreal is targeting civilians. The American news by the way is a bunch of lies. Believe it if you want, but the fact is that what Isreal is doing is Evil.

soldier against soldier is rather difficult whe hezbollah is busy hiding under the women's skirts.

the rockets were flying prior to all of this, the american news is not a bunch of lies, and you're off your rocker.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I define solidier against soldier fair. I ground war away from civilians. I call allowing humanitarian aid to come in to people who need it fair. These Air strikes are just massacres. Thats what they are. Isreal is murdering the Lebanese people. yes the rockets will still be flying as long as Isreal is targeting civilians. The American news by the way is a bunch of lies. Believe it if you want, but the fact is that what Isreal is doing is Evil.

soldier against soldier is rather difficult whe hezbollah is busy hiding under the women's skirts.

the rockets were flying prior to all of this, the american news is not a bunch of lies, and you're off your rocker.

The US media is extremely slanted towards Israel - coverage hasn't exactly been objective over the last couple of weeks. A rocket attack that kills 5 or 6 people gets more press than an airstrike that kills 10 times that number of the other side.

Whether or not Hezbollah is really hiding behind womens skirts as you put it, doesn't justify the continued slaughter of civilians. The longer this goes on, the more civilians that are written off simply as 'collateral damage', the more likely it is that people in the region will warm to the likes of Iran's President, who despite his continued insistences that Israel should be 'done away' with is bizarrely marketing himself as some sort of 'voice of reason'.

[chri'stina 190]

"Evil" is really a point of view - the religiosity of the conflict of course makes it easier to couch things in those terms, but ultimately it is a simplification.

I understand that, which is why my question was a little sarcastic. My problem is, those who support Israel are called biased, but those who support hezbollah are biased too in my opinion. How can someone expect others to change their minds suddenly about the situation, when they themselves are completely biased about it too. Calling what Israel is doing as strictly evil is very biased when it does not acknowledge the wrong doing on both sides. If Israel is evil, then does that mean hezbollah is good?

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I define solidier against soldier fair. I ground war away from civilians. I call allowing humanitarian aid to come in to people who need it fair. These Air strikes are just massacres. Thats what they are. Isreal is murdering the Lebanese people. yes the rockets will still be flying as long as Isreal is targeting civilians. The American news by the way is a bunch of lies. Believe it if you want, but the fact is that what Isreal is doing is Evil.

soldier against soldier is rather difficult whe hezbollah is busy hiding under the women's skirts.

the rockets were flying prior to all of this, the american news is not a bunch of lies, and you're off your rocker.

The US media is extremely slanted towards Israel - coverage hasn't exactly been objective over the last couple of weeks. A rocket attack that kills 5 or 6 people gets more press than an airstrike that kills 10 times that number of the other side.

Whether or not Hezbollah is really hiding behind womens skirts as you put it, doesn't justify the continued slaughter of civilians. The longer this goes on, the more civilians that are written off simply as 'collateral damage', the more likely it is that people in the region will warm to the likes of Iran's President, who despite his continued insistences that Israel should be 'done away' with is bizarrely marketing himself as some sort of 'voice of reason'.

strange how most of the news sources i read has very little about israeli casualties but lots about palestininan ones. so yes there is some bias in reporting, it seems that if you're in lebanon and get hurt you're more likely to appear on the news than if you are in israel.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Evil" is really a point of view - the religiosity of the conflict of course makes it easier to couch things in those terms, but ultimately it is a simplification.

I understand that, which is why my question was a little sarcastic. My problem is, those who support Israel are called biased, but those who support hezbollah are biased too in my opinion. How can someone expect others to change their minds suddenly about the situation, when they themselves are completely biased about it too. Calling what Israel is doing as strictly evil is very biased when it does not acknowledge the wrong doing on both sides. If Israel is evil, then does that mean hezbollah is good?

The polarisation of the conflict itself is reflected in the debate. I don't hold Israel to be spotless in this matter - but certainly it would be ridiculous to deny that the likes of Hezbollah, essentially a mercenary army funded by the likes of Iran and Syria does not represent a serious threat to Israel's national security.

There are double standards being applied by proponents of boths sides - the adversarial nature of these debates makes it really unsurprising that people adhere to one side or other, against common sense or reason. Anti-semitism is a reality, but so is anti-muslim prejudice (which has seen a huge resurgence over the last 5 years - since 9/11).

Its a shame people can't take a more balanced view of these things - hard to see how there can be any sort of resolution when noone is prepared to even acknowledge the arguments of the other side.

Indiscriminate bombardment and targetted bombardment with little regard for the people who live near the target zone are both evil, IMO.

I define solidier against soldier fair. I ground war away from civilians. I call allowing humanitarian aid to come in to people who need it fair. These Air strikes are just massacres. Thats what they are. Isreal is murdering the Lebanese people. yes the rockets will still be flying as long as Isreal is targeting civilians. The American news by the way is a bunch of lies. Believe it if you want, but the fact is that what Isreal is doing is Evil.

soldier against soldier is rather difficult whe hezbollah is busy hiding under the women's skirts.

the rockets were flying prior to all of this, the american news is not a bunch of lies, and you're off your rocker.

The US media is extremely slanted towards Israel - coverage hasn't exactly been objective over the last couple of weeks. A rocket attack that kills 5 or 6 people gets more press than an airstrike that kills 10 times that number of the other side.

Whether or not Hezbollah is really hiding behind womens skirts as you put it, doesn't justify the continued slaughter of civilians. The longer this goes on, the more civilians that are written off simply as 'collateral damage', the more likely it is that people in the region will warm to the likes of Iran's President, who despite his continued insistences that Israel should be 'done away' with is bizarrely marketing himself as some sort of 'voice of reason'.

strange how most of the news sources i read has very little about israeli casualties but lots about palestininan ones. so yes there is some bias in reporting, it seems that if you're in lebanon and get hurt you're more likely to appear on the news than if you are in israel.

Hezbollah rocket attacks into Israel, get generally more coverage than airstrikes in Lebanon. The US media is heavily biased towards Israel, just as the BBC, for instance, has a tendency to report primarily from the other side.

[Bosco 1]

I don't know enough about rocket launchers to know if this article is true, but it echoes what I have heard other military say about the supposed firing of rockets from neighborhoods - that the size of the rockets that Hezbollah is using cannot be done in close quarters - and also they would not be making their range if they were shot from places like Tyre but would have to be closer to the border.

Hizbullah rockets cannot be fired from buildings

31/07/2006 | The Irish Times

Tom Clonan

Hizbullah has fired almost 2,000 missiles into Israel over the last fortnight, killing more than 50 Israelis and forcing almost one million into air raid shelters.

Despite this provocation, however, Israel's response has been sharply criticised as "disproportionate" in many quarters. In the aftermath of the deaths of dozens of innocent Lebanese women and children at Qana yesterday, even the US has urged the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) to modify their responses to Hizbullah's attacks.

IDF spokespeople are maintaining that Hizbullah had been mounting missile attacks on Israeli territory from Qana in recent days. The IDF has claimed it targeted the three-storey house in Qana at 1.30am local time in the belief it contained a Hizbullah "asset".

Any investigation into the targeting of this house will have to consider precisely what kind of Hizbullah "asset" could possibly have been hidden in a modest, low-rise building among the narrow streets of a village such as Qana.

The type of missiles being fired by Hizbullah at Israeli cities cannot be fired from within houses, mosques, hospitals or even UN facilities as has been suggested by the IDF. Due to the massive "back-blast" caused by the rocket launchers of these missiles, they can only be fired from open ground. To fire them from within a building would result in the instant death of the missile crew and probable destruction of the missile before launch. Most of the missiles are truck-mounted and are fired - on open ground - from the backs of flat-bedded trucks or larger four-wheel-drive vehicles.

When fired, these missiles generate an enormous flare of light, heat and sound energy - a heat and light signature which is readily detected by IDF target-acquisition systems. Accurate retaliatory fire can be directed at Hizbullah launch sites by IDF aircraft and ground artillery in seconds. Such a reaction would be considered by international military norms to be proportionate and within the general "rules of engagement".

In these circumstances, having fired their missiles, Hizbullah tends to disperse as rapidly as possible. It is unlikely that a flat-bedded truck with a multilaunch rocket-system mounted on it could be easily and rapidly hidden in a village as small as Qana. Nor is it likely that such a truck-mounted weapon or four-wheel-drive vehicle could easily be hidden in a house such as the one targeted by the IDF yesterday.

The pattern and circumstances of the attack are sinister. With no telltale scorch marks from a Hizbullah missile launch visible near the destroyed house, and with no Hizbullah fighters among the dead and injured, the question remains as to what kind of "asset" the IDF could credibly allege to have been contained within the building.

The timing of the attack, taking place as it did during a period of relative calm and not in the immediate aftermath of a Hizbullah missile launch, speaks of a punitive strike designed simply to kill members of the Shia community from which Hizbullah is drawn and receives its moral support. The targeting of unarmed Shia women and children would represent a deliberate targeting of innocent civilians for retaliatory or punitive purposes, and may well constitute a war crime.

Tom Clonan is The Irish Times security analyst.

© The Irish Times .

Hezbollah rockets cannot be fired from buildings

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I don't know enough about rocket launchers to know if this article is true, but it echoes what I have heard other military say about the supposed firing of rockets from neighborhoods - that the size of the rockets that Hezbollah is using cannot be done in close quarters - and also they would not be making their range if they were shot from places like Tyre but would have to be closer to the border.

Hizbullah rockets cannot be fired from buildings

not fired from buildings, correct (for this size of rocket - rpg's are another matter just don't stand behind the launcher ). but these large rockets can be fired from the street adjacent to such, provided the trajectory available correspondes with the desired target. there is a massive backblast from the launch of these rockets, and as long as those launching it prepare the area for the blast (channeling it in a safe direction) it's very feasible.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

"Evil" is really a point of view - the religiosity of the conflict of course makes it easier to couch things in those terms, but ultimately it is a simplification.

There is a historical and political basis behind this, islamic fundamentalists seem to have taken over from the WW2 Nazis as the stereotypical (stupid) bad guys, which perhaps is why people keep comparing WW2 with the current world situation - despite the fact that they are uniquely different.

There's no 'right' or 'wrong'. Yeah, we get it. Have an opinion...

"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel."

----Robert Frost