Need :Co-Sponsor I-134 (I'm Jobless right now)

[Bobby+Umit 161]

NOTE: There is no such thing as a "co-sponsor" in USCIS forms and instructions. USCIS only refers to a joint sponsor where applicable. Many people at the VJ web site use co-sponsor instead of joint sponsor because it is three less keystrokes.

Yes - your correct in the forms/instructions, but they do use the word "co-sponsor" as you would "joint sponsor", so using it here, concerning affidavits of support, should be ok.

Samples:

USCIS

• SPONSORING RELATIVES – Using benefits, including cash welfare, health care, food programs and other non-cash benefits, does not prevent citizens and LPRs from sponsoring relatives. However, sponsors must submit an Affidavit of Support showing that they have enough money (alone or with a co-sponsor) to support their relatives at 125 percent of the poverty level.

Source

State Department (Embassy website):

If you do not qualify to sponsor your spouse, you must provide a Form I-864 and supplemental documents from a co-sponsor.

Source

[Audy_Rob 26]

Well if you want to get all technical. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it isn't USCIS it's DOS at the submission of the affidavit of support.

It is true that DOS adjudicates the I-134 at the Embassy/Consulate stage. But the I-134 does not contain either of the two terms "co-sponsor" or "joint sponsor." The I-134 and I-864 Instructions and Forms are all written and printed by USCIS, unrelated to DOS."

Edited to ADD: Relax, I only mentioned this because the OP wanted to know the difference. Bobby has shown documentation I am unaware of that refers to a "co-sponsor."

Edited May 6, 2010 by Audy_Rob

[Dot 0]

so what is the minimal amount my joint sponsor should be making and can I have more than 1 joint sponsors?

[Audy_Rob 26]

so what is the minimal amount my joint sponsor should be making and can I have more than 1 joint sponsors?

The minimal amount is 125% of the poverty line for the household size which is the joint sponsor plus beneficiary plus any additional dependents not counting you. You can get the amount for that from the I-864P form at the USCIS web site www.uscis.gov. For two people only, joint sponsor and beneficiary, the amount is $18,212 at this moment, meaning that is the 2009 figure. It might go up sometime in 2010 but do not worry about that now.

On the I-864 which is used for AOS after marrying your fiance(e), you are allowed two joint sponsors. The I-134 has no specific instructions or restrictions. Bobbhy might know if there is a restriction on the number of joint sponsors for the I-134. It would need to come from the AFM or some other source of guidance for the COs.

IMO (which is not worth much) is that it would not be good to try to use two joint sponsors for the I-134. I think that would not appear favorably.

EDITED to add a link to the I-864P poverty guidelines.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-864p.pdf

good luck

Edited May 7, 2010 by Audy_Rob

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Unfortunately - the FAM/AFM doesn't give much guidance on the I-134 - since it's not legally binding, however, it seems to me that they use the same criteria as the I-864.

Your best bet is to contact the intending embassy/consulate and see what their requirements are. Ankara embassy will accept 2 co-sponsors for the I-134, but they give you a bigger look-see at your bonafides, so if I was going to go through this particular place, I would try to get one co-sponsor to cover the level needed.

Basically, they (at the embassy) are making the call if you, as the sponsor, can keep your immigrant off the welfare rolls in the US. If they feel you cannot, then they can deny the attempt. The FAM/AFM are quite clear in this regard.

[Audy_Rob 26]

Unfortunately - the FAM/AFM doesn't give much guidance on the I-134 - since it's not legally binding, however, it seems to me that they use the same criteria as the I-864.

Your best bet is to contact the intending embassy/consulate and see what their requirements are. Ankara embassy will accept 2 co-sponsors for the I-134, but they give you a bigger look-see at your bonafides, so if I was going to go through this particular place, I would try to get one co-sponsor to cover the level needed.

Basically, they (at the embassy) are making the call if you, as the sponsor, can keep your immigrant off the welfare rolls in the US. If they feel you cannot, then they can deny the attempt. The FAM/AFM are quite clear in this regard.

Bobby always has good information and I always learn something such as the FAM/AFM are not legally binding.

I have already stated my opinion that I would have a concern about two joint sponsors for the I-134.

Additionally I have just read a great posting from Jim of JimVaPhoung who is the other senior highly respected member of VJ.

The thread is here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/255122-i-134-and-co-sponsor-questions/

And the particular entry of interest is:

Just to clarify on this a bit...

The I-864P provides the baselines for an I-864 affidavit of support. The instructions for the I-864 make this pretty clear. However, there is no corresponding "I-134P" for the I-134 affidavit of support, and the instructions for the form don't indicate what the baseline is, or how it is determined. The FAQ page for the K1 visa at the DoS website states unequivocally that the baseline for the I-134 is 100% of the federal poverty guidelines:

http://travel.state....994.html#Income

Many consulates don't explicitly state what baseline they will apply with the I-134. The truth is that the consulate is not required to apply any baseline in determining whether a sponsor satisfies the requirements of the public charge determination. We do know, from the statements of many people, that consulates often routinely reject an I-134 affidavit of support if the sponsor's income lies between 100% and 125% of the poverty guidelines, so the safest bet is to presume that the consulate will apply the I-864 standards as a minimum. If you don't meet the 125% income requirement for your household by a reasonable margin, play it safe and get a co-sponsor.

I hope Jim does not mind me sharing his wisdom with the others in this way.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Bobby always has good information and I always learn something such as the FAM/AFM are not legally binding.

The I-134 affidavit is not legally binding. "FAM" is something else, and can mean "Field Adjudicators Manual" if you're talking about USCIS, or "Foreign Affairs Manual" if you're talking about a consulate. I don't know if they are 'legally binding', but they do provide guidance for USCIS and consular employees in interpreting US laws and applying departmental policies.

I hope Jim does not mind me sharing his wisdom with the others in this way.

No problem.

[Audy_Rob 26]

The I-134 affidavit is not legally binding. "FAM" is something else, and can mean "Field Adjudicators Manual" if you're talking about USCIS, or "Foreign Affairs Manual" if you're talking about a consulate. I don't know if they are 'legally binding', but they do provide guidance for USCIS and consular employees in interpreting US laws and applying departmental policies.

No problem.

Yes, thank you Jim. I was re-reading this thread and it stuck out to me as quite obvious reading it through this time that Bobby was referring to the I-134 as not legally binding.

Thanks for the correction.

[trailmix 77]

The minimal amount is 125% of the poverty line for the household size which is the joint sponsor plus beneficiary plus any additional dependents not counting you.

That's not actually accurate Audy - however maybe you are just too lazy to type out the extra info?

Dot, the correct information is that the sponsor, technically, need only prove 100% of the poverty guidelines in income (for their household size, plus the immigrant) to make the I-134 sufficient.

From the Department of State:

Do the same income requirements apply to all immigrant visa applicants even if they use the I-134?

No. The 125 percent minimum income requirement, the most recent year's tax return and other requirements only apply when an I-864 is needed. Applicants using the I-134 will need to show that their sponsor's income is 100 percent of federal poverty guidelines as required under Section 212(a)(4) of the INA.

That said - some consulates use the guideline of 125% for the I-134 as well.

I don't think that any of us posting in this thread have enough experience with the I-134, as it relates to the Montreal and Vancouver consulates, to comment on how the COs at those consulates view the income requirements.

I would suggest you ask this question in the Canada forum, although from what I have read most of the K1s there do adhere to the 125% requirement HOWEVER I have never read of a K1 being turned away based on only providing proof of 100% (maybe that's because no one here ever does - because they are getting the same advice you are).

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

That's not actually accurate Audy - however maybe you are just too lazy to type out the extra info?

Dot, the correct information is that the sponsor, technically, need only prove 100% of the poverty guidelines in income (for their household size, plus the immigrant) to make the I-134 sufficient.

From the Department of State:

Do the same income requirements apply to all immigrant visa applicants even if they use the I-134?

No. The 125 percent minimum income requirement, the most recent year's tax return and other requirements only apply when an I-864 is needed. Applicants using the I-134 will need to show that their sponsor's income is 100 percent of federal poverty guidelines as required under Section 212(a)(4) of the INA.

That said - some consulates use the guideline of 125% for the I-134 as well.

I don't think that any of us posting in this thread have enough experience with the I-134, as it relates to the Montreal and Vancouver consulates, to comment on how the COs at those consulates view the income requirements.

I would suggest you ask this question in the Canada forum, although from what I have read most of the K1s there do adhere to the 125% requirement HOWEVER I have never read of a K1 being turned away based on only providing proof of 100% (maybe that's because no one here ever does - because they are getting the same advice you are).

I don't spend much time in the Canada forum, so I don't know if the consulate approves I-134's where the sponsor meets the 100% threshold, but comes in under the 125% threshold. I do know that a lot of people have posted in the Asia: East and Pacific forum that were denied or told to get a co-sponsor when they were between 100% and 125%.

Re. that quote from the FAQ's on the DoS website, I believe it is an error. Firstly, section 212(a)(4) of the INA (which the FAQ refers to) only broadly describes the "public charge" determination which the consular officer must make. Section 212(a)(4)(B)(ii) says the consular officer may consider an affidavit of support in making this determination, and refers to section 213A for the requirements of the affidavit. Section 213A specifically says that the affidavit is a contract "...in which the sponsor agrees to provide support to maintain the sponsored alien at an annual income that is not less than 125 percent of the Federal poverty line during the period in which the affidavit is enforceable". The only place in section 213A that mentions 100 percent is in describing the income requirements for active duty military personnel. Section 213A does not differentiate between two different types of affidavits, nor even acknowledge that there are two different affidavits.

In short, there is no basis in immigration law for the statement made on the FAQ page at the DoS website.

My guess is that the two different affidavits reflect a difference between DoS and DHS in interpreting the INA. DHS, via USCIS, requires the I-864, which is a legally binding contract that spells out the minimum requirements for a qualifying sponsor, and meets the requirements of INA 213A. DoS uses the I-134, which does not meet the requirements of INA 213A because it is not a binding contract, and because it does not clearly spell out the minimum requirements. This permits consular officers to make the determination based solely on the requirements of INA 212(a)(4), which gives the consular officer complete discretion. Remember that 214(a)(4) says the consular may consider an affidavit of support under section 213A, but they aren't required to. By choosing to use an affidavit that doesn't conform to section 213A, they are not bound by the requirements of that section, and reserve judgment for themselves.

[Dot 0]

Wow, thanks everyone, all your replies were really helpful. I mean reading it once was a bit overwhelming. I'll try to reorganize what you said in my head to have it make sense. Unfortunately I have to deal with final exams right now. I guess I'll work on my K1 stuff after exams

again MANY OF THANKS TO ALL OF YOU THAT REPLIED!! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!!!!

Edited May 12, 2010 by Dot