Italian city fines Muslim woman for wearing burqa

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ROME (AFP) – Italian police fined a Muslim woman for wearing a full Islamic veil in a street in the northern city of Novara.

...

Novara, in Italy's northeastern Piedmont region, is a stronghold of the anti-immigration Northern League, a key party in Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's conservative government.

The woman, a Tunisian national, was stopped by police officers outside a post office in the company of her husband.

When her husband refused to have her identified by male officers they called in a patrol comprising a woman officer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100504/ts_afp/italypoliticsreligionislamwomenrights_20100504111851

[The_Dude 1,142]

The reality is that this will not have the effect that they want. Fines or punishments aren't going to get the women to take the burqa off. They will however stay at home to avoid such fines i would wager.

[Peikko 1,575]

It is not a very good way to change attitudes for sure.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

France is moving towards the same thing.

[Danno 1,228]

It is not a very good way to change attitudes for sure.

I suspect it's not about Changing attitudes but more about resisting the evolution of society into an islamic atmosphere.

The problem is, with spains death spiral birthrate..... I can't see any other future for them.

[Peikko 1,575]

I suspect it's not about Changing attitudes but more about resisting the evolution of society into an islamic atmosphere.

The problem is, with spains death spiral birthrate..... I can't see any other future for them.

Spain? What is an 'islamic atmosphere' when it is at home and why should that necessarily be something one would and should resist? If this was about Spain (which it isn't), historically, Southern Spain has a very strong tie with Northern Africa, most of Southern Spain was under the dominion of the Moors.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You can't force people to conform to "acceptable" social attitudes simply by banning articles of clothing. And you certainly aren't going to achieve that by jailing and fining people for it - imo it comes dangerously close to punishing people for pursuing their religious faith.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The Italian law is an example of putting safety first. You have a woman who refuses to identify herself to police. How is that a good thing?

[Danno 1,228]

Spain? What is an 'islamic atmosphere' when it is at home and why should that necessarily be something one would and should resist? If this was about Spain (which it isn't), historically, Southern Spain has a very strong tie with Northern Africa, most of Southern Spain was under the dominion of the Moors.

Did I type Spain?

Actually Italy has a birthrate which insures rapid decline as well.

An islamic atmosphere is one which a [place starts to resemble an Islamic Country.

Why should they resist it?

Obviously to maintain their Italian culture.

It's the same reason so many town across the USA have "historic districts". .... where one must even get permission to paint a house to insure proper color.

Lets be real here, does anyone really think these laws are to prevent bank robbers from Wearing Burkas, I am aware of no such case.

[Danno 1,228]

You can't force people to conform to "acceptable" social attitudes simply by banning articles of clothing. And you certainly aren't going to achieve that by jailing and fining people for it - imo it comes dangerously close to punishing people for pursuing their religious faith.

I agree, it does.

But as I have said before, these are the natural conflicts which accompany stark diversity.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The Italian law is an example of putting safety first. You have a woman who refuses to identify herself to police. How is that a good thing?

What was the reason for the couple being stopped by the police? AFAIK Italy hasn't outlawed the Burqa or other religious clothing, so what exactly precipitated this situation?

A police officer can't just approach someone going about their business and demand ID.

[Peikko 1,575]

Did I type Spain?

Actually Italy has a birthrate which insures rapid decline as well.

An islamic atmosphere is one which a [place starts to resemble an Islamic Country.

Why should they resist it?

Obviously to maintain their Italian culture.

It's the same reason so many town across the USA have "historic districts". .... where one must even get permission to paint a house to insure proper color.

Lets be real here, does anyone really think these laws are to prevent bank robbers from Wearing Burkas, I am aware of no such case.

Parts of Spain already resemble an Islamic Country architecturally. Should they pull all these buildings down?

I am always 'real' Danno - yes, Europe has for the last 2,000 years been dominated by Judeo-Christian culture but I can't see how one can mandate that it remains that way, nor can you dictate to Europeans how many children they should have in order to preserve a particular culture that you prefer over another, even if such a thing were desirable, which I am not convinced that it is. Your fear of 'islamificaton' is rather bizarre because it does not appear to have a rational basis.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

All cultures evolve and intermingle over time. This idea of cultural purity is a bit odious IMO.

[Peikko 1,575]

All cultures evolve and intermingle over time. This idea of cultural purity is a bit odious IMO.

It is, particularly when one concludes that only 'some' outside influences are dangerous while others are benign.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[sandinista! 1,816]

The Italian law is an example of putting safety first. You have a woman who refuses to identify herself to police. How is that a good thing?

assuming her civil rights are not being violated in the first place by the police. in this country anyways, police cannot just walk up to someone on the street and detain them and force them to show their id without valid reason. i realize this is italy being discussed. but if it is the case that italian police have the ability to do that, it's disgraceful.

there are too many unknowns here. no one knows what her or her husband's behavior was just prior to the time the police asked them to id themselves. wearing a burqa in and of itself does not constitute reason for police to stop this couple and ask them for their id here. and it's my opinion that anyplace that does constitute that as plenty of reason violates the civil rights of their citizens.

**and now i see that mr madhouse has already posited this point, while i was typing. i need to learn to type faster

Edited May 4, 2010 by sandinista!