Democrats Unveil Outline for Amnesty

[Fandango 1,440]

The argument that these illegal immigrants have stolen jobs away from Americans doesn't fly. Without them, our economy would be in worse shape - even for the state of Arizona, their local economies are going to take a serious hit. Should we do nothing and maintain the status quo? No. What we need to do is expand the guest worker program and make it relatively easy for companies to sponsor visas for low skilled labor provided they reasonably demonstrate a need. Instead of our current method where employers must document their workers (which has been a failure and has created an a black market for counterfeit documentation) should provide tax incentives to businesses that would help control the flow of guest workers in areas of high unemployment. But beyond that, unionizing low skilled labor would help to raise the pay of these kinds of jobs to a more livable wage, thereby eliminating an underclass. It's economics.

No, it's bullsh!t.

[Heracles 417]

Support what? Because I refuse to join on the emotional driven rants that offer no rational, pragmatic solutions, I'm supporting the status quo? Hardly. Deporting the millions that are already here is not a rational solution.

Dude you are the one who is running on emotion here. Most people have made sound arguments speaking against illegal aliens. It's you who sits here with three or so stock-standard clichés. Yes the same lines used for over four years now.

Talk about being delusional.

[Heracles 417]

I was just thinking, this so-called rational and pragmatic talk is coming from the guy who deems any actual and factual evidence against illegal aliens as racist.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Support what? Because I refuse to join on the emotional driven rants that offer no rational, pragmatic solutions, I'm supporting the status quo? Hardly. Deporting the millions that are already here is not a rational solution.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico

Border Patrol vets offer tips on curbing illegal immigration

One day in 1954, Border Patrol agent Walt Edwards picked up a newspaper in Big Spring, Texas, and saw some startling news. The government was launching an all-out drive to oust illegal aliens from the United States.

The orders came straight from the top, where the new president, Dwight Eisenhower, had put a former West Point classmate, Gen. Joseph Swing, in charge of immigration enforcement.

General Swing's fast-moving campaign soon secured America's borders – an accomplishment no other president has since equaled. Illegal migration had dropped 95 percent by the late 1950s.

Several retired Border Patrol agents who took part in the 1950s effort, including Mr. Edwards, say much of what Swing did could be repeated today.

"Some say we cannot send 12 million illegals now in the United States back where they came from. Of course we can!" Edwards says.

Donald Coppock, who headed the Patrol from 1960 to 1973, says that if Swing and Ike were still running immigration enforcement, "they'd be on top of this in a minute."

William Chambers, another '50s veteran, agrees. "They could do a pretty good job" sealing the border.

Edwards says: "When we start enforcing the law, these various businesses are, on their own, going to replace their [illegal] workforce with a legal workforce."

While Congress debates building a fence on the border, these veterans say other actions should have higher priority.

1. End the current practice of taking captured Mexican aliens to the border and releasing them. Instead, deport them deep into Mexico, where return to the US would be more costly.

2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegals. Without jobs, the aliens won't come.

3. End "catch and release" for non-Mexican aliens. It is common for illegal migrants not from Mexico to be set free after their arrest if they promise to appear later before a judge. Few show up.

The Patrol veterans say enforcement could also be aided by a legalized guest- worker program that permits Mexicans to register in their country for temporary jobs in the US. Eisenhower's team ran such a program. It permitted up to 400,000 Mexicans a year to enter the US for various agriculture jobs that lasted for 12 to 52 weeks.

One of Swing's first decisive acts was to transfer certain entrenched immigration officials out of the border area to other regions of the country where their political connections with people such as Senator Johnson would have no effect.

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973

[one...two...tree 2,762]

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico

Operation Wetback was a real stain on Eisenhower's presidency and you're kidding yourself if you think anyone in Washington is willing to even consider it. For one, it didn't solve the problem as border crossings continued. Second, they took many American born people as well as legal immigrants and wrongly shipped them off.

Operation Wetback

In 1949 the Border Patrol seized nearly 280,000 illegal immigrants. By 1953, the numbers had grown to more than 865,000, and the U.S. government felt pressured to do something about the onslaught of immigration. What resulted was Operation Wetback, devised in 1954 under the supervision of new commissioner of the Immigration and Nationalization Service, Gen. Joseph Swing.

Swing oversaw the Border patrol, and organized state and local officials along with the police. The object of his intense border enforcement were "illegal aliens," but common practice of Operation Wetback focused on Mexicans in general. The police swarmed through Mexican American barrios throughout the southeastern states. Some Mexicans, fearful of the potential violence of this militarization, fled back south across the border. In 1954, the agents discovered over 1 million illegal immigrants.

In some cases, illegal immigrants were deported along with their American-born children, who were by law U.S. citizens. The agents used a wide brush in their criteria for interrogating potential aliens. They adopted the practice of stopping "Mexican-looking" citizens on the street and asking for identification. This practice incited and angered many U.S. citizens who were of Mexican American descent. Opponents in both the United States and Mexico complained of "police-state" methods, and Operation Wetback was abandoned.

http://www.pbs.org/k...imeline/20.html

.........

This is a good summation:

I've spent hours reading up on "Operation Wetback," and the number of deportations was in the range of 1.3 million to 3.5 million at most. Second, the big problem with all these raids was that they tended to be very imprecise. When you start kicking down doors, dragging folks out of their homes and sending them packing in large numbers, you are going to make some mistakes. Untold numbers of legal immigrants and American citizens of Latin American descent were wrongfully deported and shipped off to live in poverty in a foreign land as a result of the crackdowns highlighted below. Many more were driven to leave their own nation "voluntarily" by fear and persecution. In conclusion, the folks who think our immigration crisis can be solved by rounding up and deporting 12 million people are dumber than a tree. Thanks to Hoover, Truman, and Eisenhower, we know it won't work. --Granny, 9/19/09

[luckytxn 2,265]

We can with a continuous forceful round up at employers of all sizes all over the country rid ourselves of these leeches. As we round them up we go in and arrest the employers at the same time and pad lock the business for forfeiture. Employers would right away be making sure their employees are legal and if not get rid of them and be looking for legal workers and if can't find then raise the pay to find them. If that makes it where they can't stay in business then good riddance.

[Pooky 3,843]

We can with a continuous forceful round up at employers of all sizes all over the country rid ourselves of these leeches. As we round them up we go in and arrest the employers at the same time and pad lock the business for forfeiture. Employers would right away be making sure their employees are legal and if not get rid of them and be looking for legal workers and if can't find then raise the pay to find them. If that makes it where they can't stay in business then good riddance.

At least give it a go, rather than just abandon the current legislation. If nothing else comes of it, at least the Arizona law has focused public attention on what the Federal government is not doing that it should, and on what it is doing that it shouldn't. The public is getting engaged and the politicians are getting concerned, as they should.

[sjr09 155]

At least give it a go, rather than just abandon the current legislation. If nothing else comes of it, at least the Arizona law has focused public attention on what the Federal government is not doing that it should, and on what it is doing that it shouldn't. The public is getting engaged and the politicians are getting concerned, as they should.

Az. law enforcement may not need to enforce the law, but the law will enforce it's self? Rumors can be quite effective.

Ariz. Hispanics' fear dampens Cinco de Mayo

'They don't want to go to the park or clubs to celebrate ... they're scared'

Rumors circulate of an immigration raid at Cinco de Mayo festivities.

Some are afraid to leave their homes, even on the day when the nation celebrates Hispanic heritage.

Some have left the state, and some of those who remain wonder if they should follow.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Az. law enforcement may not need to enforce the law, but the law will enforce it's self? Rumors can be quite effective.

Ariz. Hispanics' fear dampens Cinco de Mayo

'They don't want to go to the park or clubs to celebrate ... they're scared'

Rumors circulate of an immigration raid at Cinco de Mayo festivities.

Some are afraid to leave their homes, even on the day when the nation celebrates Hispanic heritage.

Some have left the state, and some of those who remain wonder if they should follow.

How many Mexicans you got crossing the border over there in Hawaii?

[Ban Hammer 13,634]

How many Mexicans you got crossing the border over there in Hawaii?

wow talk about taking a wrong turn somewhere!

[sjr09 155]

How many Mexicans you got crossing the border over there in Hawaii?

No borders in Hawaii Numnut.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

No borders in Hawaii Numnut.

How did you immigrate there, haole?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

From an economic perspective, that status quo actually helps our economy, albeit in a broken way. As for jobs - actually the numbers have dwindled after our recent economic recession. We have free flowing trucks full of goods driving from Mexico into the U.S. by the hundreds, if not thousands on a daily basis, thanks in large part to NAFTA. Unless we are willing to tear up that trade agreement, it doesn't make any logical sense, at least economically as to why we can't or shouldn't allow a steady flow of labor by expanding our guest worker program under the umbrella of NAFTA.

I don't follow the logic of how removing illegals will be against NAFTA. Guest workers should not become illegal immigrants, should they? They should return home when their time is up, otherwise, they are violating the law.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't follow the logic of how removing illegals will be against NAFTA. Guest workers should not become illegal immigrants, should they? They should return home when their time is up, otherwise, they are violating the law.

No, I'm not making that argument. I'm saying that the free trade agreement essentially opened our borders with Canada and Mexico in terms of commerce. Labor should be no exception, IMO. It should be relatively easy for a business to sponsor an H-2 visa if they can reasonably demonstrate a need. That way, those who do come here on the guest worker program would be more easily tracked and they would have to go through the immigration process like anyone else if they decided they wanted to stay here permanently.

[sjr09 155]

How did you immigrate there, haole?

You don’t get out much? Just so you understand Hawaii is part of the US so no need to immigrate, that is if you was born a US Citizen, and I was. As for the term Haole you don’t even know or comprehend the context of the word, for all you know I very well could be Native Hawaiian or ‘ele ele‘. You need to pick your words wisely some will view the word as a insult to one race, racial slur or racial profiling. I hope your aware of VJ TOS.

Take your time to respond or better yet say nothing because your looking pretty stupid right about now.