Immigration rally

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You guys really do have your head in the sand. After five years, you still don't get culture. Much like Steven who attempts to disingenuously use NAZI and racism allegations to justify illegal aliens, you do the exact same regarding gangs and crime. You have used the socioeconomics argument before, though I am still waiting for you to illustrate (demonstrate) that those in similar socioeconomics abroad commit similar levels of crimes. Unlike Paul here who is new, I know that you guys will criticize yet never ever produce anything of your own.

What are we supposed to get?

Your problem, BY, is that you want to stigmatise and blame specific groups of people as if somehow surgically removing them from the environment would somehow eliminate crime. Essentially you want simple, easy answers to what are complex questions.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Now you are getting ridiculous. The majority of gangs are around cities, not in rural Kansas. Their highest percentage is in rural counties - at a whopping 16%.

Nevertheless, lets look at the picture or rural versus city.

I'm not discounting any of it. I just wonder why you do.

Why is it of no interest to you that there are significant differences between rural and urban trends? Clearly something is at work there.

And why for that matter is the majority of gang activity centered around urban areas?

Just wondering if you have answers for any of this.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Heracles 417]

What are we supposed to get?

Your problem, BY, is that you want to stigmatise and blame specific groups of people as if somehow surgically removing them from the environment would somehow eliminate crime. Essentially you want simple, easy answers to what are complex questions.

Actually, lets not bullshit. Exclude Hispanic and AA based crime rates and the crime rate of America would be on par with [first world] European low levels. That is the reality you ignore. Ever heard of a snitch within a the burbs? I certainly have not, nor has anyone else for that matter. You do the crime you get reported and pay the time; thus our low crime levels. Or do people do drive-bys because they are poor? Even your mate A.J in here admitted we spend more per student in poor areas than we do in wealthy areas.

My point, time to hold these groups accountable for their own actions rather than shifting the blame on others; especially Hispanic groups that have ZERO historical excuses.

[Heracles 417]

I'm not discounting any of it. I just wonder why you do.

Why is it of no interest to you that there are significant differences between rural and urban trends? Clearly something is at work there. And why for that matter is the majority of gang activity centered around urban areas? Just wondering if you have answers for any of this.

Are you serious? Excluding you who apparently lived in the ghetto, who wants to live with such a culture? Even the middle class and wealthy AA would not dare live in those areas.

You want us to fix up these areas and do everything we can, yet not not once will you ask them why the cannot pick up a hammer or a paint of can. You enable them and don't even realize it.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Actually, lets not bullshit. Exclude Hispanic and AA based crime rates and the crime rate of America would be on par with [first world] European low levels. That is the reality you ignore. Ever heard of a snitch within a the burbs? I certainly have not, nor has anyone else for that matter. You do the crime you get reported and pay the time; thus our low crime levels. Or do people do drive-bys because they are poor? Even your mate A.J in here admitted we spend more per student in poor areas than we do in wealthy areas.

My point, time to hold these groups accountable for their own actions rather than shifting the blame on others; especially Hispanic groups that have ZERO historical excuses.

They don't need a historical excuse, they have a present day one.

The fact of the matter is a good lot of hispanic families are rather large. Usually with anywhere from 3 - 8 kids depending. Hell one of my best friend's has 8 brothers and sisters. Mom and dad can't necessarily give proper attention to each and every child, so those children will grasp onto anyone who is willing to make them feel at home, make them feel important and somewhat special.

Gangs do this for a lot of young people. Race isn't necessarily a factor here though either as any broken family unit that is lacking proper 'love' could result in the same issue. "COULD" being the key word here though as it's not always the case and some children are resilient and grow up without ever needing that.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Yes Pike because there are oh so many gangs in rural America. Millions.

the DRM (dirt road mafia) is some mean dudes. they're into meth production & distribution, prostitution, theft, gambling....all that stuff.

yes, the DRM is real (harrah,ok)& yes, i laughed my a$$ off too.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Actually, lets not bullshit. Exclude Hispanic and AA based crime rates and the crime rate of America would be on par with [first world] European low levels. That is the reality you ignore. Ever heard of a snitch within a the burbs? I certainly have not, nor has anyone else for that matter. You do the crime you get reported and pay the time; thus our low crime levels. Or do people do drive-bys because they are poor? Even your mate A.J in here admitted we spend more per student in poor areas than we do in wealthy areas.

That's your problem, BY. You just aren't willing to accept that society is a complex place and that people's environment and circumstances do more to develop their attitudes and behaviours than anything else.

My point, time to hold these groups accountable for their own actions rather than shifting the blame on others; especially Hispanic groups that have ZERO historical excuses.

Your "point" lacks any sort of detail and amounts to spurious rhetoric.

[The_Dude 1,142]

They don't need a historical excuse, they have a present day one.

The fact of the matter is a good lot of hispanic families are rather large. Usually with anywhere from 3 - 8 kids depending. Hell one of my best friend's has 8 brothers and sisters. Mom and dad can't necessarily give proper attention to each and every child, so those children will grasp onto anyone who is willing to make them feel at home, make them feel important and somewhat special.

Gangs do this for a lot of young people. Race isn't necessarily a factor here though either as any broken family unit that is lacking proper 'love' could result in the same issue. "COULD" being the key word here though as it's not always the case and some children are resilient and grow up without ever needing that.

That's not just hispanic families.... that's Catholic families.

[Heracles 417]

Your "point" lacks any sort of detail and amounts to spurious rhetoric.

Unlike your point of course. Blame whitey while excuse their actions or lack of. Now is probably the time you are going to bring up Aborigines.

Apparently putting trash in a bin, taking care of the section 8 homes paid for by me and buying a hammer and can of paint from walmart, where many hang out, is too complex. Okay I'll pay for $50 for those supplies.

That's not just hispanic families.... that's Catholic families.

Difference is that they have the money. I am yet to hear about one such family on foodstamps or their forth child receiving a free $2 lunch. Remember, my friends work for the county so they crunch the numbers.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Are you serious? Excluding you who apparently lived in the ghetto, who wants to live with such a culture? Even the middle class and wealthy AA would not dare live in those areas.

No BY, that's not what I asked you. Here:

Why is it of no interest to you that there are significant differences between rural and urban trends? Clearly something is at work there. And why for that matter is the majority of gang activity centered around urban areas? Just wondering if you have answers for any of this.

I'm just wondering why you are citing statistics and yet you don't seem interested in actually talking about what the data shows beyond the simplistic contention that it's a "black" and "hispanic" problem.

What you are doing is taking a complex set of data that describes a complex social problem and trying to render it down to the level of saying that were it not for black and hispanic people that we would have a peaceful society. Your selectivity is very dishonest.

You want us to fix up these areas and do everything we can, yet not not once will you ask them why the cannot pick up a hammer or a paint of can. You enable them and don't even realize it.

And you get this from where... exactly?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Unlike your point of course. Blame whitey while excuse their actions or lack of. Now is probably the time you are going to bring up Aborigines.

No, BY that isn't my point. Read my preceding post.

Apparently putting trash in a bin, taking care of the section 8 homes paid for by me and buying a hammer and can of paint from walmart, where many hang out, is too complex. Okay I'll pay for $50 for those supplies.

How is this relevant?

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Please stop the name calling and personal insults - they add nothing to the discussion.

[Heracles 417]

Pike, doesn't dancing around the issue get tiring?

You mentioned rural gangs, in which I illustrated they barely make up a fraction of gangs. Furthermore, I indicated that the number of Caucasians associated with such gangs there is still relatively isolated; considering they still only make up a fraction of gangs. Hate to burst your bubble Pike but most of us don't aspire nor look up to gang bangers. We certainly don't adore music or built up a culture which encourages and endorses gangs. This is something you seem to miss.

Nothing complex about it. Just a matter of choices or lack of.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Pike, doesn't dancing around the issue get tiring?

You mentioned rural gangs, in which I illustrated they barely make up a fraction of gangs. Furthermore, I indicated that the number of Caucasians associated with such gangs there is still relatively isolated; considering they still only make up a fraction of gangs. Hate to burst your bubble Pike but most of us don't aspire nor look up to gang bangers. We certainly don't adore music or built up a culture which encourages and endorses gangs. This is something you seem to miss.

Nothing complex about it. Just a matter of choices or lack of.

I asked you why you're only interested in statistics that validate your preconceptions and the throw out the rest as being somehow irrelevant.

For someone with some interest in the subject you aren't willing to do much analysis. You seem to believe that culture exists separate to any of the interrelated factors that define it.

Why is that?