Acute insanity with a side of schizophrenia

[SPSguy 18]

Folks, the mere fact of filing a form and obtaining a "pending" AOS status does not mean that such action will lead to an approval in the end.

A minor clarification first. A USC's child can be born anywhere and will still be a US citizen upon reporting a birth abroad to the embassy. Keep in mind however that the child will be considered a "naturalized" citizen and not a natural born citizen. This may be a non-issue for 99% of the people except for those wishing the opportunity for the child to become a future president.

Last, this case is filled with obfuscations in that the pregnat immigrant was the subject of the cancelled 129F petition. IN the absense of the 129F petition this matter would be simple as advised by the military hotline. Intent to defraud is a difficult evidence for the government to obtain, yet with a cancelled 129F and subsequent filing of 130 and AOS, it will be icing on the cake for the adjudicator wishing to slam dunk.

[sachinky 465]

Actually, a child of a USC, even if born in any other country is deemed to be natural born by virtue of jus sanguine.

[SPSguy 18]

Actually, a child of a USC, even if born in any other country is deemed to be natural born by virtue of jus sanguine.

Sacha, do you have additional info on this? I am personally interested in obtaining clarification as my wife and I are in the processing of planning for our first child. She will be immigrating to the U.S. soon, yet we both have good jobs overseas. One of the challenges for us currently is deciding whether to have the child born overseas or in the United States.

It is more expensive for a child to be born in the United States, thus, any info you can provide would be much appreciated.

I have researched this topic and the conclusion seems to lead to a naturalized citizenship for anyone born/child of USC or not outside of the USA.

[sachinky 465]

The United States of America grants natural-born citizenship status based on the political concepts on jus sanguine or jus solis.

The former is by blood (sanguine)--one USC parent is sufficient to grant the child USC, no matter which country the child is born in.

The latter is by soil (solis)--if you're born on U.S. soil you are a USC, even if neither one of your parents are. Thus, the popularity of anchor babies.

Some USCs are considered to be natural born by meeting both criteria, others are deemed to be natural born USCs by meeting either ONE criteria.

Hope this helps! I'll see if I can find an official link for you.

Edited April 29, 2010 by sachinky

[sachinky 465]

India, for example, follows both in granting Indian citizenship. Germany, on the other hand, only allows one, can't remember which one, though.

Edited April 29, 2010 by sachinky

[belinda63 3,038]

Citizenship at Birth

[sachinky 465]

Okay, even though I hate quoting Wikipedia as a source, here's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States_of_America

This is the part that would apply to you if you do decide to have a child outside of the U.S. in the near future--

Jus sanguinis

Under certain circumstances, US citizenship can be acquired via jus sanguinis from one's parents. The following conditions affect children born outside the US and its outlying possessions to married parents (special conditions affect children born out of wedlock).

If both parents are US citizens, the child is a citizen if either of the parents has ever lived in the US prior to the child's birth.

If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is a US national, the child is a citizen if the US citizen parent has lived in the US for a continuous period of at least one year prior to the child's birth.

If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if

the US citizen parent has been "physically present" in the US before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and

at least two of those five years were after the US citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.

And this one explains it well:

"Any confusion on this point is the result of misunderstanding the legal concepts of jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of birthplace) as they apply to citizenship questions in the United States. Here's how the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service explains the matter:

The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees citizenship at birth to almost all individuals born in the United States or in U.S. jurisdictions, according to the principle of jus soli. Certain individuals born in the United States, such as children of foreign heads of state or children of foreign diplomats, do not obtain U.S. citizenship under jus soli.

Certain individuals born outside of the United States are born citizens because of their parents, according to the principle of jus sanguinis (which holds that the country of citizenship of a child is the same as that of his/her parents)."

Source: http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_citizen.htm

Edited April 29, 2010 by sachinky

[SPSguy 18]

Thanks Sacha, thanks Belinda,

If things were as simple as defining Jus sanguine and Jus Solis then one could say ANY child born to a USC can be granted a natural born citizenship. But this is not at all true as there are conditions that must be met as well.

Here's an interesting read,

Barack Obama (born 1961), 44th president of the United States, was born in Honolulu, Hawaii to a U.S. citizen mother and a British subject father from what was then the Kenya Colony of the United Kingdom (which became the independent country of Kenya in 1963). Before and after the 2008 presidential election, arguments were made that he is not a natural born citizen. On June 12, 2008, the Obama presidential campaign launched a website to counter what it described as smears by his opponents, including these challenges to his eligibility.[58] The most prominent issue raised against Obama was the claim made in several lawsuits that he was not actually born in Hawaii. In two other lawsuits, the plaintiffs argued that it was irrelevant whether he was born in Hawaii,[59] but argued instead that he was nevertheless not a natural born citizen because his citizenship status at birth was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948.[60] The relevant courts have either denied all applications or declined to render a judgment due to lack of jurisdiction. Some of the cases have been dismissed because of the plaintiff's lack of standing.[25] On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,".[61] On July 27, 2009, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.R. 593, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood, including the text, "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961." [62] The vote passed 378-0. [63]

Things would be different and his presidency would be regarded in suspicion had the Hawaii Health Director did not come out and proclaimed the existence of the original birth records of Barack Obama as being in HAWAII.

In my case, Jus sanguine would not be a guaranteed thing, without also meeting the following stipulation since I have been a naturalized U.S. citizen for over 20 years after my 14th birthday:

If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if

the US citizen parent has been "physically present" in the US before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and

at least two of those five years were after the US citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.

Now I just need to confirm if total period of at least five years means five continuous years or five total years out of the 20 years of my citizenship, prior to the birth of the child.

While I'm at this, does anyone here know or have experience in obtaining a passport for a newborn outside of US? Is it as simple as filing for birth abroad and applying for a passport or are there additional immigration process?

Edited April 29, 2010 by SPSguy

[TheBears 9]

Citizenship issues aside, I've had experience helping to obtain a CRBA for my cousin. PITA, but worth it.

Your first source for info is the Embassy in Phnom Penh.

Check it out. It says that the 5 year period is "a period (or periods totaling) five years". I'd take that you mean your 20 years of residence since age 14 fulfill this requirement.

Paperwork Needed:

DS-2029 Application for CRBA

Cambodian birth certificate

USC parent's passport (to prove citizenship)

Marriage certificate (to establish which rules you're following, out of wedlock vs. in)

Divorce certificate, if either of you were previously divorced (generally whoever you're married to is considered the parent, even if this is not true, unless it can be proved otherwise)

$65 CRBA fee

Assuming you'd like to bring the child to the US, you'll want a passport, too.

Paperwork Needed:

DS-11 Application for US Passport

CRBA with both parent's names + photocopy (to prove child's USC and parent's relationship to child)

Cambodian birth certificate with both parent's names (parental relationship) Note: This MUST be an original document.

Both parent's passports + photocopy (identification)

2 Passport-style photos of the child

$85 passport fee

The child will need to be present at the CRBA appointment.

Both parents will need to be present in order to sign the passport application. If for some reason one parent cannot attend, they will need to submit DS-3053 Parental Consent for US Passport.

It might be helpful to bring pictures of the child with the parents at various times: Mom and Dad in the hospital during labor. Mom and Dad with a very red and oh-so-cute newborn. Mom and Dad bringing the baby home. Mom and Dad going to the market when Baby is 1 month old. You get the idea. This is especially important if you've lived in Cambodia with the child for a few years before registering the birth at the embassy. The goal here is to make sure that the child in front of the CO is really the child of the USC. If all else fails, you may be requested to submit to a DNA test. You not have to submit to the DNA test, but refusing may result in a denial of your CRBA petition.

We did this in Thailand. It was pretty much the same documents required. We brought pictures. At that time, I was used as an interpreter because the USC husband was deployed. We had planned to do it during my 30 day VWP vacation. I ended up having to adjust my status from a visitor to a non-immigrant in order to stay longer to finish this out with my aunt. In total, it took about 50 days to do this. I have no idea why. From others' experiences, it doesn't usually take that long.

Either way, I'd say fill out as much of the paperwork as you can before the child is born. After birth, fill in the missing boxes. I'd have both parents fill out the DS-3053, just in case. You never know what will happen when. Walk in to the ACS as soon as you have the Cambodia birth certificate (and a certified copy or two, just in case) and the baby and mother have been cleared to leave the hospital. To me, filing sooner is better.

My cousin was 7 when we got her CRBA. Her mom had already gone through the IR-1 process. We brought in three photo albums covering birth, naming, travels, and birthdays with Mom, Dad, and other family members as well as school records listing Mom and Dad's names.

Once they had the CRBA and passport, I went home. My aunt and cousin came over two or three weeks after that.

Maybe that helps. If not, hopefully the links in it will be of better service.

[TheBears 9]

Folks, the mere fact of filing a form and obtaining a "pending" AOS status does not mean that such action will lead to an approval in the end.

Of course. But I don't see the point in, having lost K-1 fees already, filing for an AOS that will open them up to the potential for very serious consequences if not approved. Especially when so many of us can "see" the fraud perception the IO may have.

If loss of AOS fees are okay, then use them to send Wifey back home, wait a while, then bring her back to the US once more while waiting. OP said they had been doing that, sending her home every 3 months. Then, they can both be together while the CR-1 is pending and both fly back for the interview and possibly birth.

Regular I-130s are being approved in less than 60 days now (Whoa!) and with him being military, it should be even less than that. If he uses those 60 days wisely (gathering relationship evidence, ordering tax transcripts today, filling out DS-230 and I-864 ahead of time, getting the PCC immediately after sending in the I-130, etc.) then he should be able to breeze through NVC. Another 4-6 weeks until the interview date. Even if she were 3 months into her pregnancy now, she could have the visa in hand before air travel is restricted at 36 weeks. From there, they have 6 months for her to enter, giving them the option to choose where they want the baby to be born.

Yes, nothing is certain. You're absolutely right. Just me personally, though, I wouldn't want to play with the IO having a decent basis to suspect the wife had an the intent to immigrate when she entered the US as a visitor. Especially while I was pregnant. hehehe... Then again, I was one of those pregnant women who, while having no morning sickness or serious cravings, was prone to mood shifts at the drop of a pin.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

Well said 'Bear"^^. But I tend to let grown people solve and drown in their own mess, we have pointed out the pit falls to the OP. Everyone will have different opinions on what they think may or maynot happen. If the OPs are gamblers, I say go for the risk. If they are those who like things neat and clean and in a box, then I say go for the approch you have outlined.

But none of us, can give them a good clear solution/answer to their problems, because they have not given us the exact time line of all of the previous events. Without the exact time time we can not predict what their chances will be with either option. Right now all of us are speculating based on the limited information that was posted by the OP.

Good luck on which ever decision they may choose, and congratulations on the imminent birth of their baby.

[pushbrk 12,911]

In my case, Jus sanguine would not be a guaranteed thing, without also meeting the following stipulation since I have been a naturalized U.S. citizen for over 20 years after my 14th birthday:

Now I just need to confirm if total period of at least five years means five continuous years or five total years out of the 20 years of my citizenship, prior to the birth of the child.

While I'm at this, does anyone here know or have experience in obtaining a passport for a newborn outside of US? Is it as simple as filing for birth abroad and applying for a passport or are there additional immigration process?

It means five total years prior to the child's birth at least two (total again) years after you reached age 14.

File a CRBA and passport application. (Perhaps it's one in the same?) US Citizens do not immigrate because, well, they are citizens.

[SPSguy 18]

Many thanks Bears,

I have just started the process of researching the whole CRBA. My wife will pick up her IR1 visa tomorrow from the PP embassy. Just today she received a great offer from a big company. We will be entering the U.S. within 6 six months but is considering returning to PP to take advantage of the job offer. Of course this will affect our family planning for the next year or two.

Since the CRBA bases off the USC's parent ( me ), do you know if there is any affidavit of financial support forms that must be filled out for the newborn's CRBA and passort approval? Both my wife and will be earning foreign earned income so they show up as negative.

[TheBears 9]

Many thanks Bears,

I have just started the process of researching the whole CRBA. My wife will pick up her IR1 visa tomorrow from the PP embassy. Just today she received a great offer from a big company. We will be entering the U.S. within 6 six months but is considering returning to PP to take advantage of the job offer. Of course this will affect our family planning for the next year or two.

Since the CRBA bases off the USC's parent ( me ), do you know if there is any affidavit of financial support forms that must be filled out for the newborn's CRBA and passort approval? Both my wife and will be earning foreign earned income so they show up as negative.

Yay! Congrats on the visa approval and new job offer! I'm sure you've already thought about it, but don't forget about keeping the LPR status if you want it.

The CRBA isn't an immigration process. It's more like an affirmation of the child's US citizenship. As a USC, the child won't immigrate at all; they're simply returning to their home country. They'll get a US passport and use it the same as you do when you enter the US. No AOS or NVC or any other ugly acronym to deal with.

[SPSguy 18]

Thanks Pushbrk,

Based on the feedback i'm getting, it could be a very fast, easy process. Must easier than the K3, IR1. he-he.