Why are people advising others that the K3 is obsolete?

[Ready2Kl 1]

Now those are some concrete reasons. I'll even add one more, in that you would interview months sooner in Vancouver than Montreal. Yours is one of the exceptions that make the K3 an attractive choice. Another exception I've mentioned several times is when the foreign spouse has no other way to legally enter the USA even to meet family but is not yet ready to immigrate and/or be subject to maintaining permanent resident status.

For the average couple wanting to be reunited with in the USA permanently, there is potentially a few weeks advantage, none or a delay in timeline to be weighed against the cost and hassle associated with adjusting status and waiting for work authorization. It's hardly a justification to start hanging your hat on USCIS honoring a procedural request or risking your whole process by intentionally creating the need for an RFE.

The subject line of this thread is telling. The question is "Why....?" The answer has been clearly given. For those to whom the answer doesn't apply or who wish attempt to find a way around the new NVC procedure, let them do so well informed as to the possibilities and realities of the situation.

I'll say again that my wife and daughter came to the USA on K3/4 visas and that I strongly disagree with NVC's decision to change their procedures. At the same time, I have a comprehensive and holistic understanding of both the K3 and IR1/CR1 processes and have given my assessment with that in mind.

Push,

You have advocated that filing I-129F for K3/K4 is delaying I-130 app a lot on this forum. That is incorrect. Unless something of that nature officially comes out from USCIS people should take advantage of the fact that filing for K3/K4 is free and should file for it. Filing for it is harmless and you can always decide to withdraw your K3/K4 process and just go with IR1/CR1 process. There is a good possibility that I130 and I129F will reach NVC at the same stage and K3/K4 closed. But what is there to lose in that scenario. NOTHING!!! Because if you just depend on I-130 and ignore I-129F think about the circumstance when you get a simple RFE because you missed out something on I-130. Now you are struck with only one option which is I-130. Filing for I-129F will give you added flexibility in such a scenario. NVC said they will close K3/k4 if they receive the approved petitions at the same time. Neither did USCIS nor NVC ever say officially as far as I know that filing for K3/K4 will cause your IR1/CR1 process to slow down.

In my opinion its a few over zealous folks out here on VJ with good intentions but giving out misleading information. Again I am also talking with personal experience that my wife's K3/K4 process and I-130 approval did not slow down just cause we filed for an I-129F....And we just finished out process this February 2010 and so we are recently in this.

[pushbrk 12,892]

Push,

You have advocated that filing I-129F for K3/K4 is delaying I-130 app a lot on this forum. That is incorrect. Unless something of that nature officially comes out from USCIS people should take advantage of the fact that filing for K3/K4 is free and should file for it. Filing for it is harmless and you can always decide to withdraw your K3/K4 process and just go with IR1/CR1 process. There is a good possibility that I130 and I129F will reach NVC at the same stage and K3/K4 closed. But what is there to lose in that scenario. NOTHING!!! Because if you just depend on I-130 and ignore I-129F think about the circumstance when you get a simple RFE because you missed out something on I-130. Now you are struck with only one option which is I-130. Filing for I-129F will give you added flexibility in such a scenario. NVC said they will close K3/k4 if they receive the approved petitions at the same time. Neither did USCIS nor NVC ever say officially as far as I know that filing for K3/K4 will cause your IR1/CR1 process to slow down.

In my opinion its a few over zealous folks out here on VJ with good intentions but giving out misleading information. Again I am also talking with personal experience that my wife's K3/K4 process and I-130 approval did not slow down just cause we filed for an I-129F....And we just finished out process this February 2010 and so we are recently in this.

"Slowing down" is our terminology used to describe the practical result of filing the I-129F subsequent to filing the I-130. We see what actually happens is that the I-130 moves back in the waiting line to the date the I-129F was received. From that point forward things move at the same speed. "Delay" of the approval is a more accurate description than to "slow" the processing. How much of a delay depends directly upon the time between filing the two petitions.

I would never advise anybody to withdraw an I-129f petition while the I-130 is still in process. That's an excellent way to introduce a delay in the I-130 approval, perhaps a significant delay. Anybody who has filed both petition and later decides they want to follow the I-130 can simply ignore correspondence related to the I-129F.

[daboyz 36]

I guess people have their reasons for the K-3. In my case I decided to go the IR-1 route even though I filed an I-129F with the I-130. It slowed me down about 3 months (2 months of those due to my incompetent attorney, 1 month for the NVC steps) My wife came, SS card came two weeks later, green card two weeks after that, and we're done for 10 years unless we decide to go for citizenship.

I guess some people like shelling out another $1010 and then dealing with the fun of dealing with USCIS again. Some people bring up the K-4 thing, but then they're gonna get nailed $1010 X2 for AOS.

[pushbrk 12,892]

I guess people have their reasons for the K-3. In my case I decided to go the IR-1 route even though I filed an I-129F with the I-130. It slowed me down about 3 months (2 months of those due to my incompetent attorney, 1 month for the NVC steps) My wife came, SS card came two weeks later, green card two weeks after that, and we're done for 10 years unless we decide to go for citizenship.

I guess some people like shelling out another $1010 and then dealing with the fun of dealing with USCIS again. Some people bring up the K-4 thing, but then they're gonna get nailed $1010 X2 for AOS.

The issue of money is really moot now anyway because if you never get K3 or K4 you never pay $1010 to adjust status.

K3 went from saving about 4 years in 2002 to 6 to 9 months in early 2006, to at most about six weeks and at worst a negative few weeks time savings by this time in 2007 as compared to an efficiently and effectively managed CR1 or IR1 process, for all but the exceptional locations like Western Canada and one or more Consulates in India.

We were very happy to save the six months in 2006, particularly under the old fee structure for adjusting status.

Today, there's no way to assure that an I-129F petition for spouse, filed today, will ever result in any K3 or K4 visa at all, much less serve to unit a family faster than if they had not filed the I-129F in the first place. This practical fact on the ground, is what makes K3 "obsolete" for all but the rare case that might accidentally slip through.

I actually hope some of the people who actually need the K3 visa will be able to get USCIS or NVC to listen to them and send the petitions on through. But those people represent an extremely small percentage of the spouse visa cases being filed.

[SPSguy 18]

I actually hope some of the people who actually need the K3 visa will be able to get USCIS or NVC to listen to them and send the petitions on through. But those people represent an extremely small percentage of the spouse visa cases being filed.

PUSHBRK, it's conceivable that the extremely small percentage of the cases filed slip through, because only a small percentage of people actually filed this way. Most people on average are fearful, and they become even more fearful of the unknown -- and yet even most fearful when others tell them they can't do it.

This forum has discussed several ways to handle the situation, if you feel the K3 is obsolete, so be it. For others, life is as practical as you play it. You keep saying that this is now that was then, yet most of what you say are also based on speculations and hearsay.

Earlier someone mentioned ease of proof of domicile as another advantage for using K3 and it's true. I can vouch to this, because I have been living and working overseas for over two years now. I think having the K3 approved and using the K3 to visit the U.S. and returning to complete a work contract overseas showed domocile intent in the U.S. No issue was raised for us in re. domocile.

Plus, as you know, K3 interviews are generally faster at the consulate. Although things are faster now for CR1.

[daboyz 36]

PUSHBRK, it's conceivable that the extremely small percentage of the cases filed slip through, because only a small percentage of people actually filed this way. Most people on average are fearful, and they become even more fearful of the unknown -- and yet even most fearful when others tell them they can't do it.

This forum has discussed several ways to handle the situation, if you feel the K3 is obsolete, so be it. For others, life is as practical as you play it. You keep saying that this is now that was then, yet most of what you say are also based on speculations and hearsay.

Earlier someone mentioned ease of proof of domicile as another advantage for using K3 and it's true. I can vouch to this, because I have been living and working overseas for over two years now. I think having the K3 approved and using the K3 to visit the U.S. and returning to complete a work contract overseas showed domocile intent in the U.S. No issue was raised for us in re. domocile.

Plus, as you know, K3 interviews are generally faster at the consulate. Although things are faster now for CR1.

I'm totally lost on that. Are you saying that you don't have to show US domicile for K-3, but you do for CR-1/IR-1?

[SPSguy 18]

I'm totally lost on that. Are you saying that you don't have to show US domicile for K-3, but you do for CR-1/IR-1?

I was asked a bit about it for K3 and the IR1 was merely a continuuity of the plan from k3. So by taking advantage of the time frame, it posed no problem at all.

[pushbrk 12,892]

PUSHBRK, it's conceivable that the extremely small percentage of the cases filed slip through, because only a small percentage of people actually filed this way. Most people on average are fearful, and they become even more fearful of the unknown -- and yet even most fearful when others tell them they can't do it.

This forum has discussed several ways to handle the situation, if you feel the K3 is obsolete, so be it. For others, life is as practical as you play it. You keep saying that this is now that was then, yet most of what you say are also based on speculations and hearsay.

Earlier someone mentioned ease of proof of domicile as another advantage for using K3 and it's true. I can vouch to this, because I have been living and working overseas for over two years now. I think having the K3 approved and using the K3 to visit the U.S. and returning to complete a work contract overseas showed domocile intent in the U.S. No issue was raised for us in re. domocile.

Plus, as you know, K3 interviews are generally faster at the consulate. Although things are faster now for CR1.

I'm not aware of a single I-129F being sent to a Consulate after February 1st. Are you? I was talking about the possibility of some slipping through in the future.

The proposals for manipulating the system to get the I-129F forwarded to NVC separately have not yet been tried. One can only speculate as to whether they might work.

I've already indicated several times in this thread that cases where there is no immediate immigrant intent, are the one remaining critica reason to keep the K3 visa available but these cases are quite rare. We also have no knowledge as to how any K3 case is going to get through to a consulate other than by accident as all proposed methods of attempting to accomplish it are untested/speculative.

The only people I might suggest try any of the suggested methods are those with this critical need to travel freely to and from the US without having to maintain permanent resident status.

Early this year, I discussed just such a case with the parents of a young USC living in China with his Chinese wife. They have no intention to immigrate in the next two or three years, as he's working in China long term, but cannot even bring his wife for a visit. K3 is a perfect match for this situation but if I were to advise the couple to attempt the K3 route, I would also have to fully disclose that there's currently no proven path to actually succeed. They would be filing two petition, with a request to forward only one to NVC. Then, a few months later, they would find out whether their request was honored. If not, back to square one. Of course, they could elect the CR1 route and use it for perhaps a visit or two or one extended visit but they still plan to remain in China for several more years. They may NEVER want to live in the US permanently.

What would YOU tell this couple today?

Edited May 1, 2010 by pushbrk

[SPSguy 18]

I'm not aware of a single I-129F being sent to a Consulate after February 1st. Are you? I was talking about the possibility of some slipping through in the future.

The proposals for manipulating the system to get the I-129F forwarded to NVC separately have not yet been tried. One can only speculate as to whether they might work.

Funny how you also advocated back in 2008 ( somewhere around Feb - April '08 ) about not sending BOTH petitions to USCIS at the SAME TIME - in one package. Some people wrote off your advice and did it anyways. Those people got approved for K3 while the ones that followed you were still waiting for their CR1 to pass NVC.

What would YOU tell this couple today?

I would advise the same, my add-on would be that the USC prepares strong evidence of domicile in the U.S. I would disclose the exact same thing and I would write a letter and attache to both petitions of such request. Then, I would tell the USC he has nothing to lose but everything to gain. I would also tell the USC that this was the strategy that I followed and today, two years later, my wife is IR1 approved as a result of strategic planning and having the 130 held at NVC.

Is there a scientific system of speeding things up for a K3? I agree there is none. But your assertion about anything to the contrary was then and this is now doesn't fly well with me because you had used the same line two years ago on a slightly different measure.

Those without immediate intent to immigrate should give it a shot. And those with immediate intent should try it anyways and see what happens.

What do people have to lose?

[daboyz 36]

I was asked a bit about it for K3 and the IR1 was merely a continuuity of the plan from k3. So by taking advantage of the time frame, it posed no problem at all.

My English skills are limited. Is that an answer?

[pushbrk 12,892]

Funny how you also advocated back in 2008 ( somewhere around Feb - April '08 ) about not sending BOTH petitions to USCIS at the SAME TIME - in one package. Some people wrote off your advice and did it anyways. Those people got approved for K3 while the ones that followed you were still waiting for their CR1 to pass NVC.

I would advise the same, my add-on would be that the USC prepares strong evidence of domicile in the U.S. I would disclose the exact same thing and I would write a letter and attache to both petitions of such request. Then, I would tell the USC he has nothing to lose but everything to gain. I would also tell the USC that this was the strategy that I followed and today, two years later, my wife is IR1 approved as a result of strategic planning and having the 130 held at NVC.

Is there a scientific system of speeding things up for a K3? I agree there is none. But your assertion about anything to the contrary was then and this is now doesn't fly well with me because you had used the same line two years ago on a slightly different measure.

Those without immediate intent to immigrate should give it a shot. And those with immediate intent should try it anyways and see what happens.

What do people have to lose?

How USCIS was dealing with petitions and whether they would accept them filed together was in a state of flux. There are times I advocated filing them together and times I advocated otherwise and their was current compelling information driving the changes in recommendation. When somebody reports that a request to USCIS or NVC actually results in the I-129F for spouse getting through to a Consulate, I expect I'll advocate doing so at that time but only for those who have a concrete benefit from the K3.

But this is NOT the strategy you followed and the playing field is different today than when you went through the K3 process. What they have to lose is the filing fee and all their months of hoping ending in a hug disappointment. Sure, the two options are to try or not to try but they need to do so knowing the probable outcome is unknown.

My English skills are limited. Is that an answer?

You're so diplomatic. No it's not an answer with any detectable meaning.

[sachinky 465]

This comes from another VJ member. Her Brazilian friend was in line to get a K-3 for herself and K-4 for her kids. Because their I-130 and I-129f petitions were approved post-02/01, she tried to get USCIS to hold on to the I-130 and forward only the I-129f. Unfortunately, both were forwarded and NVC administratively closed the I-129f. Despite her many pleas to consider her case as a special one, she was told that her husband would have to file separate I-130s for the kids.

[daboyz 36]

This comes from another VJ member. Her Brazilian friend was in line to get a K-3 for herself and K-4 for her kids. Because their I-130 and I-129f petitions were approved post-02/01, she tried to get USCIS to hold on to the I-130 and forward only the I-129f. Unfortunately, both were forwarded and NVC administratively closed the I-129f. Despite her many pleas to consider her case as a special one, she was told that her husband would have to file separate I-130s for the kids.

I think you mean 02/10. But regardless, there's the answer to everyone's questions.

[pushbrk 12,892]

This comes from another VJ member. Her Brazilian friend was in line to get a K-3 for herself and K-4 for her kids. Because their I-130 and I-129f petitions were approved post-02/01, she tried to get USCIS to hold on to the I-130 and forward only the I-129f. Unfortunately, both were forwarded and NVC administratively closed the I-129f. Despite her many pleas to consider her case as a special one, she was told that her husband would have to file separate I-130s for the kids.

In my experience, this is exactly what I would expect from NVC. I would have slightly but only slightly more hope that USCIS would respond differently. While it seems quite reasonable USCIS would act differently, their history is to simply ignore requests.

[sachinky 465]

I think you mean 02/10. But regardless, there's the answer to everyone's questions.

Well, I meant 02/01/2010.