Why are people advising others that the K3 is obsolete?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

With all due respect I read the Feb 2010 update: http://www.visajourn...eived-together/

According to the language the change in policy and procedures regarding the K3 visa does not mention it becoming obsolete so why are people advising others that it is gone forever?

I checked the USCIS website and there is no indication that the K3 option is closing for people for good.

It seems to me USCIS gets to decide if the couple will get the CR-1/IR-1 or K3 route still.

"If the NVC does not receive your I-130 petition and I-129F at the same time, the NVC will process your I-129F petition. Then NVC will send the petition to the embassy or consulate in the country where the marriage took place. If your marriage took place in the U.S., the NVC will send the petition to the embassy or consulate that issues visas in your country of nationality. If your marriage took place in a country that does not have an American embassy, or the embassy does not issue visas, the NVC will send your petition to the embassy or consulate that normally processes visas for citizens of that country. For example, if your marriage took place in Iran where the U.S. does not have an embassy your petition would be sent to Turkey."

In our K3 case USCIS received our I-130 & I-129F nearly a month apart and approved them six months later at the same time. However, they sent our I-129F to the NVC & stated in the letter to me that they would send our I-130 to the NVC only upon receiving a letter of request from me (USC). This was after the change in procedures & filing fees across the board in July 2007.

I read on the USCIS website their meeting minutes with the American Immigration Lawyer Association (AILA) liaison minutes in April 2008 shortly after the changes in 2007 in regards to the K3 and it seems they were just working on the language for efficiency.

6.

Increasing K-3 Processing Efficiency

AILA respectfully requests USCIS to review and revise K-3 processing procedures to permanently permit concurrent filing of the I-130 and I-129F petitions and to permit a beneficiary to move forward with a K-3 visa application in those cases where the I-130 petition is approved prior to adjudication of the I-129F petition. Please see the attached Addendum I to this agenda for AILA's recommendations on this issue.

Response: USCIS appreciates AILA's recommendations regarding these K-3 issues and will take them into account as we review current policies and procedures.

K-3 Efficiency Issues

When Congress enacted the LIFE Act it stated that that the K-3 visa should be a "speedy mechanism for spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens to obtain their immigrant visas in the U.S. rather than wait for long periods of time outside the U.S."16 AILA seeks to explore processing options that will give full effect to Congressional intent under the LIFE Act. Past experience indicates that a process permitting concurrent filing of I-129F/I-130 petitions, togethwith a policy encouraging the petitioner to determine whether the beneficiary will apply for a K-3 or immigrant visa at the U.S. consulate, will lead to the greatest efficiency in the K-3 program.

The statute requires the petitioner to file an immigrant visa petition on behalf of the foreign spouse, but it does not require issuance of a receipt notice prior to filing the K-3 petition with the Service. The statute provides that the foreign spouse must have:

"concluded a valid marriage with a citizen of the United States who is the petitioner, is the beneficiary of a petition to accord a status under section 201(b)(2)(A)(i) that was filed under section 204 by the petitioner, and seeks to enter the United States to await the approval of such petition and the availability to the alien of an immigrant visa; or `(iii) is the minor child of an alien described in clause (i) or (ii) and is accompanying, or following to join, the alien"17

Petitioners should not have to wait for the I-130 receipt notice to file the I-129F. Neither the statute nor the regulations clearly require this sequential processing of petitions. The Service's regulations provide that to be classified as a K-3 spouse the alien spouse must be the beneficiary of an immigrant visa petition filed by a U.S. citizen on Form I-130, Petition for Alien Relative, and the beneficiary of an approved petition for K-3 nonimmigrant visa filed on Form I-129F. The I-129F form currently provides that petitioners must await a receipt for the I-130 petition prior to filing the I-129F petition.18

AILA understands that the Service has recently been accepting concurrently filed I-129F and I-130 petitions.19 AILA supports this approach. However, our members report mixed experiences. Some members who have attempted concurrent filings have received rejection notices. In other cases, members reported that the Service administratively closed the I-129F where the Service adjudicated the I-130 filed by the same U.S. Citizen ahead of the I-129F. In then end, a petitioner who expected his or her spouse to receive a K-3 visa discovered that the sequential process led inevitably to an immigrant visa, which often takes more time than a K-3 visa to obtain at a U.S. Consulate abroad.

Source: http://www.uscis.gov...AILA_2Apr08.pdf

I cross references with the AILA's website for information on if the K3 visa was closing for good and there is no mention of this happening.

Source: http://www.aila.org

Does anybody have any source information that this visa is becoming obsolete for good and that this isn't just a language update on their policy and procedures since the changes in 2007?

Edited because I don't know why the top portion of my post is in bold. I kept trying to edit it to normal but it wouldn't un-bold.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Cleocatra

[pushbrk 12,893]

With all due respect I read the Feb 2010 update: http://www.visajourn...eived-together/

According to the language the change in policy and procedures regarding the K3 visa does not mention it becoming obsolete so why are people advising others that it is gone forever?

I checked the USCIS website and the is no indication that the K3 option is closing for people for good.

It seems to me USCIS gets to decide if the couple will get the CR-1/IR-1 or K3 route still.

USCIS, (Dept. of Homeland Security) doesn't process or issue visas. They approve petitions. Consulates, (Part of the Dept. of State) process and issue family based visa based on approved petitions. Since USCIS has been sending the two approved petitions to NVC together for more than three years, the DOS announcement that they will administratively close the I-129F petition when both arrive together, EFFECTIVELY renders the K3 visa obsolete in all practical aspects.

For someone to file both petitions with the expectation a K3 visa would result would be a false expectation. As such, the K3 is virtually obsolete. Regardless of that, the K3 has not saved any significant time in reuniting families for over three years, and in many cases following the K3 path has actually extended the visa timeline.

The K3 visa exists and USCIS (who again does not issue visas) still says all the same things about the K3 they've always said, even though three years out of date. Actually getting to the point of interviewing for a K3 visa is not something the petitioner or beneficiary can control. NVC killed it.

It's true that policies and procedures change, so resurrection is a possibility but IMO, a possibility that carries no benefit in reuniting families to reside in the USA.

[pushbrk 12,893]

USCIS, (Dept. of Homeland Security) doesn't process or issue visas. They approve petitions. Consulates, (Part of the Dept. of State) process and issue family based visa based on approved petitions. Since USCIS has been sending the two approved petitions to NVC together for more than three years, the DOS announcement that they will administratively close the I-129F petition when both arrive together, EFFECTIVELY renders the K3 visa obsolete in all practical aspects.

For someone to file both petitions with the expectation a K3 visa would result would be a false expectation. As such, the K3 is virtually obsolete. Regardless of that, the K3 has not saved any significant time in reuniting families for over three years, and in many cases following the K3 path has actually extended the visa timeline.

The K3 visa exists and USCIS (who again does not issue visas) still says all the same things about the K3 they've always said, even though three years out of date. Actually getting to the point of interviewing for a K3 visa is not something the petitioner or beneficiary can control. NVC killed it.

It's true that policies and procedures change, so resurrection is a possibility but IMO, a possibility that carries no benefit in reuniting families to reside in the USA.

This little discussion might add some understanding for you too.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/253830-what-happens-if-the-i-129f-gets-approved-first-and-the-i-130-is-pending/page__gopid__3899918entry3899918

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

USCIS, (Dept. of Homeland Security) doesn't process or issue visas. They approve petitions. Consulates, (Part of the Dept. of State) process and issue family based visa based on approved petitions. Since USCIS has been sending the two approved petitions to NVC together for more than three years, the DOS announcement that they will administratively close the I-129F petition when both arrive together, EFFECTIVELY renders the K3 visa obsolete in all practical aspects.

For someone to file both petitions with the expectation a K3 visa would result would be a false expectation. As such, the K3 is virtually obsolete. Regardless of that, the K3 has not saved any significant time in reuniting families for over three years, and in many cases following the K3 path has actually extended the visa timeline.

The K3 visa exists and USCIS (who again does not issue visas) still says all the same things about the K3 they've always said, even though three years out of date. Actually getting to the point of interviewing for a K3 visa is not something the petitioner or beneficiary can control. NVC killed it.

It's true that policies and procedures change, so resurrection is a possibility but IMO, a possibility that carries no benefit in reuniting families to reside in the USA.

I also checked the Department of State (DOS) website and gathered from them that the K3 visa is not obsolete as the NVC will process your I-129F petition still. The letter of intent with a K3 application may clarify to the USCIS about the petitioners application status.

From DOS's website they say:

If the NVC does not receive your I-130 petition and I-129F at the same time, the NVC will process your I-129F petition. Then NVC will send the petition to the embassy or consulate in the country where the marriage took place. If your marriage took place in the U.S., the NVC will send the petition to the embassy or consulate that issues visas in your country of nationality. If your marriage took place in a country that does not have an American embassy, or the embassy does not issue visas, the NVC will send your petition to the embassy or consulate that normally processes visas for citizens of that country. For example, if your marriage took place in Iran where the U.S. does not have an embassy your petition would be sent to Turkey.

DOS site: http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_2993.html

In our case both our I-130 and I-129F were approved at the same time. I understand the K3 petitioner has to apply for the I-130 first and then the I-129F and may send their applications in together unless specified to be sent to different locations like ours was before they were transfered to be put together at the CSC USCIS. However, USCIS sent our I-129F and not our I-130 to the NVC, when they were approved at the same time, and this was after the changes in procedures. They told me in a letter that I had to send a letter of request that USCIS forward our I-130 petition to the NVC if I wished to follow that route. The language also according to the DOS website leaves the option open for the K3 visa. That is whether the USCIS forwards one case or both petitions and then the NVC effectively cancels the I-129F. From my personal experience it seems to me that would depend on the letter of intent from the petitioner and the petitioner may send that note in when they file or after they get their approvals (NOA2's) on their petitions.

In reading the various immigration website notes I can agree with you that the CR-1/IR-1 has become more efficiently processed since the changes in procedures in 2007. Our own case regarding the K3 took 2 years and 8 months but this was due to a delay outside of the US governmental administrative processing times. I wouldn't say the K3 is killed though unless the NVC did receive both approved applications at the same time at which point they would have the administrative authority based on the new update.

[pushbrk 12,893]

I also checked the Department of State (DOS) website and gathered from them that the K3 visa is not obsolete as the NVC will process your I-129F petition still. The letter of intent with a K3 application may clarify to the USCIS about the petitioners application status.

From DOS's website they say:

DOS site: http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_2993.html

In our case both our I-130 and I-129F were approved at the same time. I understand the K3 petitioner has to apply for the I-130 first and then the I-129F and may send their applications in together unless specified to be sent to different locations like ours was before they were transfered to be put together at the CSC USCIS. However, USCIS sent our I-129F and not our I-130 to the NVC, when they were approved at the same time, and this was after the changes in procedures. They told me in a letter that I had to send a letter of request that USCIS forward our I-130 petition to the NVC if I wished to follow that route. The language also according to the DOS website leaves the option open for the K3 visa. That is whether the USCIS forwards one case or both petitions and then the NVC effectively cancels the I-129F. From my personal experience it seems to me that would depend on the letter of intent from the petitioner and the petitioner may send that note in when they file or after they get their approvals (NOA2's) on their petitions.

In reading the various immigration website notes I can agree with you that the CR-1/IR-1 has become more efficiently processed since the changes in procedures in 2007. Our own case regarding the K3 took 2 years and 8 months but this was due to a delay outside of the US governmental administrative processing times. I wouldn't say the K3 is killed though unless the NVC did receive both approved applications at the same time at which point they would have the administrative authority based on the new update.

There was a short time the USCIS was holding I-130 petitions when both petitions were filed. You must have gone through during that short window of time. Currently, both petitions are being worked on the same desk by the same person and approved and forwarded to NVC together in virtually all cases. The new NVC procedure is as of February 1. For all practical purposes, at this point in time, the K3 visa is no longer a viable option. Therefore it is currently obsolete. If all you're arguing is the use of the term "obsolete" then you are technically correct. From a practical standpoint though, K3 is obsolete, dead, unavailable, no longer a viable option, not going to happen. Take your pick.

The purpose in explaining it as we do is to get the point across to the members that they need to proceed with the CR1 or IR1, including learning that process from the beginning and that they are wise not to slow that process by filing an I-129F that has only the slightest possible fluke of a chance of proceeding through to the issue of a K3 visa.

Edited April 27, 2010 by pushbrk

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Essentially what you're saying is that you're assuming the K3 is dead based on the knowledge you have.

What I'm saying is that if you write a letter when you file that you want to go the K3 route you may go the K3 route but you're going to have to specify.

I don't think it's fair to tell other members the K3 is no longer available unless there is a formal declaration from the offices such as USCIS, NVC, DOS and AILA that they are no longer accepting the I-129F applications for the K3 visa, especially when they are saying that they are still processing the K3. The only time they are not is when the I-130 reaches the NVC first and the person deciding to forward that would have to read the letter of intent with the petition first and then decide which to send. If there is no letter of intent then maybe we can assume they would choose to forward the CR-1/IR-1 on behalf of the petitioner because of efficiency as of late. Also the K3 is a money maker as it cost more in the long run so it doesn't seem likely they would do away with it. People still need to be able to come on non-immigrant visas as not all are intending immigrants.

I tried to call DOS today to speak to someone to get some information on the matter but didn't get through in time. I will try to call again tomorrow to speak with a visa specialist to see what they know.

[Brian113 0]

Cleocatra, you are 100% correct on your thinking.

Important Notice: Effective February 1st, 2010, when both the I-129F petition for a nonimmigrant K visa and the I-130 petition for an IR-1 (or CR-1) spouse of a U.S. citizen visa have been approved by USCIS and sent to the National Visa Center (NVC), the availability as well as the need for a nonimmigrant K-3 visa ends. If the NVC receives both petitions:

If the NVC does not receive your I-130 petition and I-129F at the same time, the NVC will process your I-129F petition.

[pushbrk 12,893]

Essentially what you're saying is that you're assuming the K3 is dead based on the knowledge you have.

What I'm saying is that if you write a letter when you file that you want to go the K3 route you may go the K3 route but you're going to have to specify.

I don't think it's fair to tell other members the K3 is no longer available unless there is a formal declaration from the offices such as USCIS, NVC, DOS and AILA that they are no longer accepting the I-129F applications for the K3 visa, especially when they are saying that they are still processing the K3. The only time they are not is when the I-130 reaches the NVC first and the person deciding to forward that would have to read the letter of intent with the petition first and then decide which to send. If there is no letter of intent then maybe we can assume they would choose to forward the CR-1/IR-1 on behalf of the petitioner because of efficiency as of late. Also the K3 is a money maker as it cost more in the long run so it doesn't seem likely they would do away with it. People still need to be able to come on non-immigrant visas as not all are intending immigrants.

I tried to call DOS today to speak to someone to get some information on the matter but didn't get through in time. I will try to call again tomorrow to speak with a visa specialist to see what they know.

The mere act of filing the I-129F is all the indication needed that a K3 visa is desired. Nevertheless, NVC will administratively close that petition when the two petitions arrive, rendering the K3 visa no longer available. You say you want something official from "USCIS, NVC, DOS and AILA that they are no longer accepting the I-129F applications for the K3 visa," Well, USCIS and AILA don't issue visas but DOS does and NVC is part of DOS. They are the ones closing the I-129F for spouse petitions. If you can suggest an actual way to get either USCIS to send the petitions separately or NVC to honor a request to reopen a petition, then you'll have a point. Until then, the K3 visa is unavailable except for the very slim chance of a fluke petition getting to NVC alone.

Cleocatra, you are 100% correct on your thinking.

Important Notice: Effective February 1st, 2010, when both the I-129F petition for a nonimmigrant K visa and the I-130 petition for an IR-1 (or CR-1) spouse of a U.S. citizen visa have been approved by USCIS and sent to the National Visa Center (NVC), the availability as well as the need for a nonimmigrant K-3 visa ends. If the NVC receives both petitions:

If the NVC does not receive your I-130 petition and I-129F at the same time, the NVC will process your I-129F petition.

That is correct. Now how are you going to arrange for NVC to receive your two petitions separately? No answer? Then no valid point.

[Brian113 0]

The mere act of filing the I-129F is all the indication needed that a K3 visa is desired. Nevertheless, NVC will administratively close that petition when the two petitions arrive, rendering the K3 visa no longer available. You say you want something official from "USCIS, NVC, DOS and AILA that they are no longer accepting the I-129F applications for the K3 visa," Well, USCIS and AILA don't issue visas but DOS does and NVC is part of DOS. They are the ones closing the I-129F for spouse petitions. If you can suggest an actual way to get either USCIS to send the petitions separately or NVC to honor a request to reopen a petition, then you'll have a point. Until then, the K3 visa is unavailable except for the very slim chance of a fluke petition getting to NVC alone.

That is correct. Now how are you going to arrange for NVC to receive your two petitions separately? No answer? Then no valid point.

That is why you pay a visa attorney for help on this to make sure the I-130 dies and the I-129F gets processed.

[Rhiannercakes 14]

I'd like to add in that some Consulates are no longer processing K-3 visas.

I've heard Montreal, Canada is one of them. It was said somewhere in the K-3 section, I believe.

[SPSguy 18]

Cleocatra is correct.

Here's a post i just made about a minute ago as to why I filed K3. And I think K3 continues to be a valid visa, for the right person, IF you indicate your intention clearly in a written letter included with your petitions from the start.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/110-ir-1-cr-1-spouse-visa-process-procedures/

For those wishing to move forward with K3 at this time, I would make sure so file so that both petitions do not arrive at the same time at NVC. And to acheive this the best way is to include a letter indicating your intent and attaching with both petitions upon filing.

It appears this new change is merely to minimize the redundancy in administrative work.

Pushbrk, with all the respect, you and I had a discussion about this about two years ago -- I believe at that time you were not in favor of filing 3K. Further, you were deeply convinced that the filing of 129f/130 simultaneously was a bad move. Others at the time become scared and fearful of your advice and convinced themselves not to move forward.

Please refrain from making bold absolutely statements about the topic without absolute certainty. Many people on this board have high regards for you and respect for your posts, so anything you say with absolute inference can be received as truth.

K3 is not dead.

There are people that could benefit from K3.

When excersised properly A K3 visa/status can offer greater advantages than even CR1 or K1.

[pushbrk 12,893]

That is why you pay a visa attorney for help on this to make sure the I-130 dies and the I-129F gets processed.

Except, I assure you there's no way for any attorney to make sure of that. The law actually states that when an immigrant visa is immediately available, the K3 visa cannot be issued. Previously, DOS directed that the definition of "immediately available" was "an I-130 case file on station at the US Consulate". As of February 1, 2010 they notified the world that they changed the definition to "an I-130 case file has been received by NVC". They get to do that. DOS grants and issues visas, not USCIS.

[pushbrk 12,893]

Cleocatra is correct.

Here's a post i just made about a minute ago as to why I filed K3. And I think K3 continues to be a valid visa, for the right person, IF you indicate your intention clearly in a written letter included with your petitions from the start.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/110-ir-1-cr-1-spouse-visa-process-procedures/

For those wishing to move forward with K3 at this time, I would make sure so file so that both petitions do not arrive at the same time at NVC. And to acheive this the best way is to include a letter indicating your intent and attaching with both petitions upon filing.

It appears this new change is merely to minimize the redundancy in administrative work.

Pushbrk, with all the respect, you and I had a discussion about this about two years ago -- I believe at that time you were not in favor of filing 3K. Further, you were deeply convinced that the filing of 129f/130 simultaneously was a bad move. Others at the time become scared and fearful of your advice and convinced themselves not to move forward.

Please refrain from making bold absolutely statements about the topic without absolute certainty. Many people on this board have high regards for you and respect for your posts, so anything you say with absolute inference can be received as truth.

K3 is not dead.

There are people that could benefit from K3.

When excersised properly A K3 visa/status can offer greater advantages than even CR1 or K1.

I completely agree there are people who can benefit from the K3. It's rare but true and I've said the same multiple time and immediately upon becoming aware of the new DOS notice. However, it is pure speculation that you can get USCIS to hold your I-130 back and send only the I-129F. I would never advise somebody to pay $355 and wait a few months to find out. Would you?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Here's a post i just made about a minute ago as to why I filed K3. And I think K3 continues to be a valid visa, for the right person, IF you indicate your intention clearly in a written letter included with your petitions from the start.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/110-ir-1-cr-1-spouse-visa-process-procedures/

I think you meant this link: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/253952-k3-gone-now-only-ir1-what-do-we-do/page__view__findpost__p__3901616

[astronaut 3]

Well I'm a bit of a Guinea pig in this whole K3 situation since the Feb 1st change. Our K3 app was mailed out right around Feb 1st from our atty's office with request in bold print to please delay sending the I130, and send the I129F alone first as we wanted to have the K3, rather than CR1. We'll see what happens. We're also on an afficial list with aila's attys requesting to be grandfathered in. I'm hearing back that the ones getting any possible consideration are the families with K4 apps for families. Only time will tell what happens. I do believe in miracles though, and know that whatever way things go, it ultimately will work out okay.

Now for delaying the I130 and letting the I129f move forward, wouldn't an RFE on the I130 make that happen?

Also, my understanding is that the I139 and I129F are sent to 2 seperate locations, and are joined later at the NVC. Maybe I misunderstood that point though.