Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Within the first year of moving here I learned that being a majority means nothing in the US.

Yes! this is probably the cornerstone that everything was built upon! That majority can not take away rights of the minority.

To snow:

Basically this thread has 3 parties.

1. The people that would do whatever it takes to get rid of illegals no matter what the cost.

2. The people that would do whatever it takes to give illegals a place in the US

3. The people that do not want citizens hassled on their status by police.

Your clearly in party 3....and so am I.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Sousuke

[Heracles 417]

Yes! this is probably the cornerstone that everything was built upon! That majority can not take away rights of the minority.

To snow: Basically this thread has 3 parties.

1. The people that would do whatever it takes to get rid of illegals no matter what the cost.

2. The people that would do whatever it takes to give illegals a place in the US

3. The people that do not want citizens hassled on their status by police.

Your clearly in party 3....and so am I.

Without a doubt there is no easy solution. Unfortunately we have end-to-end neglect, so the problem has just gotten worse. Realistically, regardless of the smoke and mirrors, there is not an end in sight. I doubt anyone here wants to be asked for their status by police but then surely they must toughen up everywhere else. Yet, that is the problem right there. No matter what we attempt to do, there is some 200 year old law or something that will be unconstitutional. It's why gangs effectively have more rights than a mother and child to walk down a street they too are on.

Regardless of current laws, what should happen if we are to avoid so-called discrimination or inconvenience to anyone else is:

1. Ensure anyone employed and everyone hired provides documentation indicating their to work

2. Ensure all government services carry out residency checks

3. Anyone actually arrested should have their status checked at the police station.

4. Allow ICE or new taskforce to carry out random audits of a businesses employees. HR/Managers/Contractors duty to keep all records in tact.

5. Mandate e-verify use, allowing taskforce to be alerted to the use of illegal alien labor rapidly.

6. Ensure the registration of a vehicle, property or drivers license be residency tested.

Reminds me of a MasterCard commercial. Chance of any of these happening, let alone across all states: zero. I have a better chance of squeezing coal into diamonds.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

Without a doubt there is no easy solution. Unfortunately we have end-to-end neglect, so the problem has just gotten worse. Realistically, regardless of the smoke and mirrors, there is not an end in sight. I doubt anyone here wants to be asked for their status by police but then surely they must toughen up everywhere else. Yet, that is the problem right there. No matter what we attempt to do, there is some 200 year old law or something that will be unconstitutional. It's why gangs effectively have more rights than a mother and child to walk down a street they too are on.

Regardless of current laws, what should happen if we are to avoid so-called discrimination or inconvenience to anyone else is:

1. Ensure anyone employed and everyone hired provides documentation indicating their to work

2. Ensure all government services carry out residency checks

3. Anyone actually arrested should have their status checked at the police station.

4. Allow ICE or new taskforce to carry out random audits of a businesses employees. HR/Managers/Contractors duty to keep all records in tact.

5. Mandate e-verify use, allowing taskforce to be alerted to the use of illegal alien labor rapidly.

6. Ensure the registration of a vehicle, property or drivers license be residency tested.

Reminds me of a MasterCard commercial. Chance of any of these happening, let alone across all states: zero. I have a better chance of squeezing coal into diamonds.

None of your checklist is addressed by the new law in Arizona. None of your checklist would be under the remit of state police. Whether or not I completely agree with your checklist, it's certainly an improvement on the pissy law you were endorsing all through this thread. By the way, number one is a requirement already.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

None of your checklist is addressed by the new law in Arizona. None of your checklist would be under the remit of state police. Whether or not I completely agree with your checklist, it's certainly an improvement on the pissy law you were endorsing all through this thread. By the way, number one is a requirement already.

It sort of addresses 3. but goes much further.

[Peikko 1,575]

It sort of addresses 3. but goes much further.

What people don't like about it is the part that goes much further, the part where the police are required to make guestimates about a person's possible legal status out in the streets and detaining 'suspects' until such time as it is established regardless of how one would be treated as a result of the act that led to one being brought to the attention of the police.

[Heracles 417]

None of your checklist is addressed by the new law in Arizona. None of your checklist would be under the remit of state police. Whether or not I completely agree with your checklist, it's certainly an improvement on the pissy law you were endorsing all through this thread. By the way, number one is a requirement already.

Nothing addresses the list either, hence the law being proposed in the first place. Smoke and mirrors have failed the country and its citizens. Furthermore, driven the living standard for many to a level similar to Mexico actually.

While many are more concerned about the potential discrimination aspect, the thought of giving anyone of these people amnesty is a slap in the face for any immigrant who has followed the rules. 'But but but they will pay a fine'. Rubbish, they don't own a bloody pot to piss in yet will magically pay a fine. Thus, time to put the pressure on them so they 'willing' leave.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

Nothing addresses the list either, hence the law being proposed in the first place. Smoke and mirrors have failed the country and its citizens. Furthermore, driven the living standard for many to a level similar to Mexico actually.

While many are more concerned about the potential discrimination aspect, the thought of giving anyone of these people amnesty is a slap in the face for any immigrant who has followed the rules. 'But but but they will pay a fine'. Rubbish, they don't own a bloody pot to piss in yet will magically pay a fine. Thus, time to put the pressure on them so they 'willing' leave.

You've gone off the rails again.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Heracles 417]

What people don't like about it is the part that goes much further, the part where the police are required to make guestimates about a person's possible legal status out in the streets and detaining 'suspects' until such time as it is established regardless of how one would be treated as a result of the act that led to one being brought to the attention of the police.

The fear of being caught may very-well be enough for them to leave. Sure as hell worked in our area. To cover their azz from American lawyers, the AZ police should simply only check someone's status once they are arrested. Quite frankly and as pointed out by others earlier, the police do not have resources or time to sit around chasing down illegals. However, this law does give them the authority to check, lets say a van of people discovered after being pulled over coming from nearby the border; yet there being no border crossing for 20 miles.

Hmm, that should be another point to my list.

7. Anyone within 500 feet of the US border, can be questioned (without case) and asked to provide ID.

Now if that is not reasonable I don't know what is.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

You've gone off the rails again.

No, I simply look passed the BS like others claims that they should and will simply pay a fine to become PR or citizens. Yeah, with what money will they pay this fine?

Actually if they become citizens right off the bat and don't even have to wait 3 to 5 years and have a clean record like any other PR, I am handing in my PR card. As that would be a slap in the face. I might as well walk up to congress and have them slap me in person.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

No, I simply look passed the BS like others claims that they should and will simply pay a fine to become PR or citizens. Yeah, with what money will they pay this fine?

Actually if they become citizens right off the bat and don't even have to wait 3 to 5 years and have a clean record like any other PR, I am handing in my PR card. As that would be a slap in the face. I might as well walk up to congress and have them slap me in person.

Name one person in this thread who has suggested that automatic citizenship is the way to solve this problem? As I said, you have gone of the rails again...

[ScottThuy 140]

Nothing addresses the list either, hence the law being proposed in the first place. Smoke and mirrors have failed the country and its citizens. Furthermore, driven the living standard for many to a level similar to Mexico actually.

While many are more concerned about the potential discrimination aspect, the thought of giving anyone of these people amnesty is a slap in the face for any immigrant who has followed the rules. 'But but but they will pay a fine'. Rubbish, they don't own a bloody pot to piss in yet will magically pay a fine. Thus, time to put the pressure on them so they 'willing' leave.

Screw fine.. I want fine along with years of probation at best! Would love to see deportation with lifetime ban...

[Peikko 1,575]

The fear of being caught may very-well be enough for them to leave. Sure as hell worked in our area. To cover their azz from American lawyers, the AZ police should simply only check someone's status once they are arrested. Quite frankly and as pointed out by others earlier, the police do not have resources or time to sit around chasing down illegals. However, this law does give them the authority to check, lets say a van of people discovered after being pulled over coming from nearby the border; yet there being no border crossing for 20 miles.

Hmm, that should be another point to my list.

7. Anyone within 500 feet of the US border, can be questioned (without case) and asked to provide ID.

Now if that is not reasonable I don't know what is.

You do know that the border isn't some mysterious no man's land. It actually straddles towns and businesses.

[ScottThuy 140]

exactly.. but the border is supposed to be the boundary of the country... we are supposed to be monitoring the border for threats from the outside... 500 feet sounds too short to me...

[Peikko 1,575]

Again, rationality has left this thread. Enjoy.

[david'sgirl 134]

Are there good honest illegal aliens? Of course. Americans should not have to end up collateral damage and be subjected to the odds of someone being a criminal. Also why all legal immigrants and even tourist are heavily screened before entering any other nation - including the UK. Considering the above reality, the US has every right to protect its citizens from criminals entering their country.

I agree. I really think it is simple. If people are here ILLEGALLY no matter how "nice" they may be they are CRIMINALS and should be treated as such. If I had to wait 7 months and jump through hoops to be with my husband why should someone else be able to sneak in the back door and expect the same benefits as someone who does things the Legal and correct way? I have NO sympathy whatsoever for any illegals in this country. I think they should be arrested and deported.