Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Heracles 417]

And myself. I had fought the ID for years before I moved here.

A proud member of No2ID.

Dude, you were a given.

[Heracles 417]

So discriminating against the 4/5 or 3/5 (whatever statistic you chose to use) of the population that is here legally is ok with you? They are citizens, yet held to a different standard than citizens of a different race. That is by definition racism BY. But you don't seem to be overly concerned with that anyways.

Two things I find interesting. You always come to the defense or downplay minorities no matter what they do. Yet, you will scold some isolated white hooded idiot or someone pointing out the direct actions of minorities. You also refuse to accept the damage of one country (basically one race), dominating a so-called country of immigrants immigration system. It's starting to look like it's more of a country of Latin Americans.

I am concerned actually; I am concerned with the citizens of another nation literally walking all of the United States. Last time a foreign nation did this, Americans took up arms and had a revolutionary war over it. I know your answer so I won't even ask, but the country has to decide whether it wants immigrants to come here or just Mexicans.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

they're already spending money on arresting & re-arresting the ones committing crimes. they're going to end up in one of sheriff joes camps until the feds come get'em, or make a call on illegal immigration.

it doesn't matter if they want to do it. its their job.

man hours arresting & re-arresting the same illegals who don't get deported doesn't cost?

Well, IMO most arrests are tied to the drug trade which are going to occur anyway. This law is making the police's contact with the majority of the population more time consuming which will either cost more or drop response times.

To say its their job is like telling post office workers they now need to inspect public utility meters. Its not their job, they didn't sign up for this and whether or not your alienating the hispanic community, your going to alienate alot of cops. The people we rely on.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The way the law is written it appears that the police can make no decisions about someone's status unless there is a confession to being illegal. Otherwise, the police will detain the person in whatever location contact was made until they hear from Federal authorities or Federal authorities arrive at the scene.

That's the part that is so wrong on many levels, which Trompe is describing! Detainment without bail, indefinitely until the federal authorities clear up the matter. Someone could be detained for months.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

That's the part that is so wrong on many levels, which Trompe is describing! Detainment without bail, indefinitely until the federal authorities clear up the matter. Someone could be detained for months.

I think the maximum is actually a lot less....probably 24 hrs....some areas even as low as 30 minutes.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Sousuke

[Heracles 417]

To say its their job is like telling post office workers they now need to inspect public utility meters. Its not their job, they didn't sign up for this and whether or not your alienating the hispanic community, your going to alienate alot of cops. The people we rely on.

Fair enough, money says the second we try to construct a large scale federal ICE police force of thousands, certain people will yet again cry murder. These excuses are basically smoke and mirrors from the real goal which is to ensure millions of illegal aliens stay here and get to become citizens. Then in another 15 years, America end up in the same position. All while slowly but surely, a once sovereign nation ends up El USA.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think the maximum is actually a lot less....probably 24 hrs....some areas even as low as 30 minutes.

Based on what? That doesn't make sense. The real teeth of this law is to give police the power to detain illegals until the federal authorities can start the deportation process. This law was a reactionary attempt to address the frustrations of the anti-immigration crowd who are tried of the standard 'catch and release' of illegals. If you believe the law states a limit on detainment, then this law really has no teeth as local law enforcement will be at the mercy of immigration authorities to work with them in a timely manner to handle every case. And that is setting aside and civil liberty issues. The law is nonsensical in that respect.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Fair enough, money says the second we try to construct a large scale federal ICE police force of thousands, certain people will yet again cry murder. These excuses are basically smoke and mirrors from the real goal which is to ensure millions of illegal aliens stay here and get to become citizens. Then in another 15 years, America end up in the same position. All while slowly but surely, a once sovereign nation ends up El USA.

That's why auditing employers is far more cost effective.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Based on what? That doesn't make sense. The real teeth of this law is to give police the power to detain illegals until the federal authorities can start the deportation process. This law was a reactionary attempt to address the frustrations of the anti-immigration crowd who are tried of the standard 'catch and release' of illegals. If you believe the law states a limit on detainment, then this law really has no teeth as local law enforcement will be at the mercy of immigration authorities to work with them in a timely manner to handle every case. And that is setting aside and civil liberty issues. The law is nonsensical in that respect.

Actually, you may be right. I found a few topics where attorney's have given different answers : 24,48 hrs etc. and they aren't citing a law.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Sousuke

[The_Dude 1,142]

Two things I find interesting. You always come to the defense or downplay minorities no matter what they do. Yet, you will scold some isolated white hooded idiot or someone pointing out the direct actions of minorities. You also refuse to accept the damage of one country (basically one race), dominating a so-called country of immigrants immigration system. It's starting to look like it's more of a country of Latin Americans.

I am concerned actually; I am concerned with the citizens of another nation literally walking all of the United States. Last time a foreign nation did this, Americans took up arms and had a revolutionary war over it. I know your answer so I won't even ask, but the country has to decide whether it wants immigrants to come here or just Mexicans.

BY, it's not that I come to the defense of minorities or excuse or minimize illegal immigration. It is that I am unwilling to compromise the rights of a majority of american citizens who happen to be of mexican ancestry to fight this. If the rights of one group of citizens is sacrosanct yet not for another, then they mean nothing.

[Heracles 417]

Within the first year of moving here I learned that being a majority means nothing in the US. You can be mocked, trampled on, ridiculed... you name it really. However, be expected to pay your fair share to provide everyone else free stuff.

Let me summarize the comments against this law:

• The police don't know what they are doing.
  
• This will only target Mexicans.
  
• Even naturalized Mexicans will be detained and probably bashed.
  
• Police will randomly go door to door and look for anyone that smells or looks different.
  
• It's naturally against the Constitution.
  
• People from Florida should have more of a say about Arizona than those living in Arizona.
  
• Illegal aliens are really the same as legal immigrants. They just have an extra letter to their status.
  
• Having one country dominating the entire immigration system; still means country of immigrants.
  
• Anyone with any valid concerns about the negative impact of IA or anyone pointing out that every other first world country is tough on it, is racist, anti-immigration or hates brown people period.
  

I did enjoy the SNL skit on this. As many have pointed out, it's fun to watch people who are not impacted by IA, nor have a clue about an economy, cheer it on. Now, if we were to flood their market with foreigners willing to do the work for 1/5 of what they are paid, resulting in their loss of job... well those with a clue know the drill.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So discriminating against the 4/5 or 3/5 (whatever statistic you chose to use) of the population that is here legally is ok with you?

It's called collateral damage, I suppose. Some have a high tolerance for collateral damage. Remember, a few years back we went after one guy half way around the world and got tens of thousands killed in the process. No biggie, man. It's how America rolls.

[Peikko 1,575]

Within the first year of moving here I learned that being a majority means nothing in the US. You can be mocked, trampled on, ridiculed... you name it really. However, be expected to pay your fair share to provide everyone else free stuff.

Let me summarize the comments against this law:

• The police don't know what they are doing.
• This will only target Mexicans.
• Even naturalized Mexicans will be detained and probably bashed.
• Police will randomly go door to door and look for anyone that smells or looks different.
• It's naturally against the Constitution.
• People from Florida should have more of a say about Arizona than those living in Arizona.
• Illegal aliens are really the same as legal immigrants. They just have an extra letter to their status.
• Having one country dominating the entire immigration system; still means country of immigrants.
• Anyone with any valid concerns about the negative impact of IA or anyone pointing out that every other first world country is tough on it, is racist, anti-immigration or hates brown people period.

I did enjoy the SNL skit on this. As many have pointed out, it's fun to watch people who are not impacted by IA, nor have a clue about an economy, cheer it on. Now, if we were to flood their market with foreigners willing to do the work for 1/5 of what they are paid, resulting in their loss of job... well those with a clue know the drill.

Clearly these are the conclusions you think it's reasonable to draw from reading the various opinions in this thread, which illustrates my point about you BY. You read things and intepret them based on your preconceptions about what people should believed if they were the stereotypies that you think they are.

[Peikko 1,575]

You even say that when you post, people like 'Cleo and six' is one of your favourite sentence starters as if that is somehow meaningful. It isn't, youascribe opinions to people like us that have never been uttered by either one of us, or anyone else you might clump into the people like us stereotype. It's funny to watch but does not make for the meaningful disussion you keep claiming you want to have

[thesnowman 1]

So I read the first 10 pages or so on this thread and then felt the urge to reply, so I apologies if I cover old ground here.

I am kind of torn on this one. As a UK citizen with a USA greencard I have spent thousand of $$$ to get here and remaining in status, so anyone coming over here illegally and then get granted amnesty pisses me off; however rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back is just impractical, so I am not to sure what the solution is. Anyway I lost my greencard (when my wallet went walkabout) and then paid the $300 to get a new one, therefore I don't carry it anymore, it is kept safe and secure at home (although I should really get a photocopy). My fear would be that some bored or over eager cop would would pull me over on some trumped up traffic charge and then ask to see my greencard, if I cant produce it there and then, I could be arrested. Now I know as a legal alien I should have it on me at all times, so if that happens then it is my own fault. But what happens when I become a USC, I show my driving license (which I had to show that I was here legally to get), but if I dont have a greencard to show that I was a citizen they could arrest to me to determine what my status is. Now this wouldn't be a simple 5 min check, they would either have to have access to the homeland departments database, or they would have to send a request to Homeland to determine the status. This could take a significant amount of time, and I would be locked up till they determine what my status is, very gestapo.

I also find it ironic that the Republican legislature in AZ say that since the federal government is not tackling immigration, they need to put there own laws in place. Dont Republicans believe in limited Federal power, but here they are using the lack of it as an excuse for this law.

If this law is implemented carefully and (I believe) in the way it is intended, then it shouldnt be too bad. However if history has taught us anything, is that it is likely to be abused by the authorities, that is what concerns me more.