Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[The_Dude 1,142]

you've been watching that really kinky porn again, haven't you?

[_Simpson_ 250]

No. That's the point - a law can be well-intentioned but have unintended consequences. If the politicians, driven by the need for their policies to be seen to be effective and to demonstrate that crime is falling put an inordinate pressure on the police to deliver results. That pressure also has unintended consequences and compromises the ability of the cops to do their job effectively.

The law isn't written in some ancient text. There is nothing in this law that gives one the impression that it was ok to address someone about there status because they are Mexican or whatever. Only a bad cop would do that, as I said before your issue should be with the bad cops. You are basically saying that you dont trust these cops to carry out a very easy law to comprehend.

You should be telling me that our society isnt were it needs to be to think that we could carry out such a law instead of blaming the way the law was written.

How do you think the cops will become victims of political pressure? Do you think they will be pressured to meet some sort of quota?

[Heracles 417]

Don't give me that ####### BY. Look at what you said.... only Mexicans really have a chance to enter the country illegally. There are a lot here in California that defy your little theory there. I didn't make any mention of their proportion of the total illegal immigrant population.

Yes Rob people can overstay their Visas yet if caught and deported, they are banned. As a result, what chance do they have of getting another visa or bypassing customs again?

Nevertheless, what chance does someone poor living in the 98.34% of the world that does not border the Unites States have to walk in? Poor, as in cannot afford a ticket to he US to overstay. However, what you like certain others advocate is #### the rest of the world's poor, only Mexicans deserve the opportunity.

Perhaps the rest of the developed world is also stupid to allocate a percentage of visas to a region rather than allow one country to severely dominate their immigration. I am just happy Americans are waking up and seeing though this discrimination of one country dominating US immigration.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

No they are good law abiding citizens. The FBI most wanted list in my signature is made up by haters. True Story..

Actually, Cleo they are free to use many of the above services pointed out.

Let's do a comparative analysis of AUS of them going to AUS.

• A JOB, [Illegal]
• A DRIVERS LICENSE, [Illegal]
• SOCIAL SECURITY CARD - equivalent, [Illegal]
• WELFARE,[Illegal]
• FOOD STAMPS,[Illegal]
• CREDIT CARDS,[Illegal]
• SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, [Illegal]
• FREE EDUCATION,[Illegal]
• FREE HEALTH CARE. [Illegal]
• A LOBBYIST IN Canberra to defend you[No]
• BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE [Documents are produced for a variety of languages]
• AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT [Good way to get bashed, certainly not constitutionally protected]

You don't get it do you? Most illegal aliens are not going to get arrested UNLESS this law is applied in an unconstitutional manner. Most illegal aliens simply want to get their paycheck at the end of the week and keep away from any form of authority. Are there some high profile illegal drug runners? Hell yes, and?

[The_Dude 1,142]

Yes Rob people can overstay their Visas yet if caught and deported, they are banned. As a result, what chance do they have of getting another visa or bypassing customs again?

Nevertheless, what chance does someone poor living in the 98.34% of the world that does not border the Unites States have to walk in? Poor, as in cannot afford a ticket to he US to overstay. However, what you like certain others advocate is #### the rest of the world's poor, only Mexicans deserve the opportunity.

Perhaps the rest of the developed world is also stupid to allocate a percentage of visas to a region rather than allow one country to severely dominate their immigration. I am just happy Americans are waking up and seeing though this discrimination of one country dominating US immigration.

First of all, I wasn't talking about the ones who overstay a visa. I was talking about the ones who will pack 400-500 people into a cargo bin that gets stacked on a ship. That is just as illegal as crossing the Rio Grande, only longer. It happens anywhere in the world, you too could get on one in Australia. You're chances of survival are 50/50, but none the less, it is the transport method of choice from Asia to the west coast of the U.S.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

First of all, I wasn't talking about the ones who overstay a visa. I was talking about the ones who will pack 400-500 people into a cargo bin that gets stacked on a ship. That is just as illegal as crossing the Rio Grande, only longer. It happens anywhere in the world, you too could get on one in Australia. You're chances of survival are 50/50, but none the less, it is the transport method of choice from Asia to the west coast of the U.S.

Hell...

See the ports in Vancouver...

The influx of Asians into Canada is absolutely disgusting to be honest. Their illegal Asian problem is as bad (if not worse) than the US illegal Latin American problem...

[_Simpson_ 250]

No, it allows for the treatment of anyone that doesn't 'fit in' as if they are an illegal alien. Anyone that seriously believe that this law will not be applied along ethnic lines is a bit strange.

Clearly, most people do think that the economic benefits of ridding American of vast swathes of illegal immigrants is a given because there is no other reason to get all worked up about illegal aliens if you are an every day citizen unless you believe that there is a negative impact on your life and certainly no need to use state law enforcement to flush out illegal aliens when they are already facing financing problems. There are two parallel strands to the demands to rid the nation of illegals, one is the negative impact on the economy and the second is the crime rate. If these things are not in fact real then this law becomes even more useless than it already is.

What you call "fit in" I call showing a officer legal documentation. So you honestly believe that if a German man gets pull aside and the officer recognizes that he is very nervous, doesnt speak English and can't provide a ID that the officer would let him walk away because the officer has only a specific set of people hes eying.

Sure 99% of the people in AZ that would be affected by this law would be Mexicans but considering AZ is on the Mexican boarder I have to say it make perfect sense. Like Private Pike your real issue is with how the cops will handle this, to you the cops cant be trusted to carry out this law appropriately and there for should not be put in law.I have faith in our cops and even though it might be abused by some I dont see it happening on a huge scale.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The law isn't written in some ancient text. There is nothing in this law that gives one the impression that it was ok to address someone about there status because they are Mexican or whatever. Only a bad cop would do that, as I said before your issue should be with the bad cops. You are basically saying that you dont trust these cops to carry out a very easy law to comprehend.

Again Simpson, the laws I referred to in the UK were not drafted with the explicit intent of harassing or otherwise villainising racial minorities, the only time that happens is in a fascist or totalitarian state. Again its the unintended consequences that come out of them and the conditions that they create in a climate where it is politically important that they be seen to be effective.

Illegal immigration is a political issue, this law made big headlines and gave big publicity to the politicians who came up with it.

How do you think the cops will become victims of political pressure? Do you think they will be pressured to meet some sort of quota?

You're asking questions the answer to which is self-evident. Police forces have always been under pressure from politicians at the local level to deliver results that make elected officials look good - especially when those politicians make bold election promises about cutting the crime rate or to take a stand against illegal immigration.

Arrest quotas already exist. It's why we have creative accounting on crime statistics to make certain crimes appear less frequent than they really are.

[Heracles 417]

As an example, more Mexicans are migrating here legally than that of Chinese and Indians combined. The legal residents is a bit bizarre as I am trying to figure out which visa those from Mexico are using, considering there is no blue collar visa and they don't qualify for the lottery visa. Nevertheless, a country of 110 million is sending more people here than two countries with a total population of 2.5 billion people. Furthermore, 62% of illegal aliens are estimated as being from Mexico. The two groups you mentioned earlier, unfortunately they only make up 3% of illegal aliens.

In Summary

Population

Mexico: 0.111 billion people

China & India: 2.510 billion people

Illegal aliens in the US:

Mexico: 62% of aliens

China: 1% of aliens

India: 2% of aliens

Korea: 2% of aliens

Legal Residents in the US:

Mexico: 14.6% of PR

China & India: 10.8% of PR

Korea: 2.3% of PR

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

What you call "fit in" I call showing a officer legal documentation. So you honestly believe that if a German man gets pull aside and the officer recognizes that he is very nervous, doesnt speak English and can't provide a ID that the officer would let him walk away because the officer has only a specific set of people hes eying.

Sure 99% of the people in AZ that would be affected by this law would be Mexicans but considering AZ is on the Mexican boarder I have to say it make perfect sense. Like Private Pike your real issue is with how the cops will handle this, to you the cops cant be trusted to carry out this law appropriately and there for should not be put in law.I have faith in our cops and even though it might be abused by some I dont see it happening on a huge scale.

No, not my problem with it. If only illegal aliens were negatively impacted by this law then fine, but that is far from likely in this case, what is more, as I have also stated, it will also not achieve any significant shift in the proportion of illegal aliens in the state UNLESS the law is abused. Most illegal aliens do not run around acting suspiciously and drawing attention to themselves and that's not going to change with this new law.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What you call "fit in" I call showing a officer legal documentation. So you honestly believe that if a German man gets pull aside and the officer recognizes that he is very nervous, doesnt speak English and can't provide a ID that the officer would let him walk away because the officer has only a specific set of people hes eying.

Sure 99% of the people in AZ that would be affected by this law would be Mexicans but considering AZ is on the Mexican boarder I have to say it make perfect sense. Like Private Pike your real issue is with how the cops will handle this, to you the cops cant be trusted to carry out this law appropriately and there for should not be put in law.I have faith in our cops and even though it might be abused by some I dont see it happening on a huge scale.

There is a point of view that has been expressed on here that it is a waste of time to ask a white person to show ID to prove their citizenship/immigration status, because everyone knows (as you yourself posted above), that many or most of the people who will be targeted for this sort of scrutiny will be of hispanic origin.

The problem with this (and as I have been trying to explain to you) is that by making that assumption, even on a unconscious level, you are bypassing the expectation that the police treat everyone equally - for reasons of expediency.

There is simply no way, that this kind of policy will not be enforced along ethnic lines without strict procedural guidelines dictating that everyone who is stopped/arrested/detained has their status scrutinised. Obviously this won't happen, because it will place a huge demand on workload.

[Heracles 417]

You don't get it do you? Most illegal aliens are not going to get arrested UNLESS this law is applied in an unconstitutional manner. Most illegal aliens simply want to get their paycheck at the end of the week and keep away from any form of authority. Are there some high profile illegal drug runners? Hell yes, and?

When did a country start caring what illegal aliens want? Your mother country certainly does not, as does no other first world country.

Nevertheless, your tone right there illustrates why you are against any measures. It's clear that to you, them being here is not a big deal. I should have know when you said you had no qualms with thousands of Polish workers flooding the UK market.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[thongd4me 69]

You don't get it do you? Most illegal aliens are not going to get arrested UNLESS this law is applied in an unconstitutional manner. Most illegal aliens simply want to get their paycheck at the end of the week and keep away from any form of authority. Are there some high profile illegal drug runners? Hell yes, and?

Knock knock

Who's there?

Illegal

Illegal who?

A legal is someone abiding by the law. An illegal doesn't.

How is it unconstitutional that someone who is illegal can never be against the law

or be in danger of being held accountable for illegal status?

You're smoking some real old leaves from the Constitution...

Times change and the needs of citizens change.

There is a need to protect the integrity of citizenship.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Knock knock

Who's there?

Illegal

Illegal who?

A legal is someone abiding by the law. An illegal doesn't.

How is it unconstitutional that someone who is illegal can never be against the law

or be in danger of being held accountable for illegal status?

You're smoking some real old leaves from the Constitution...

Times change and the needs of citizens change.

There is a need to protect the integrity of citizenship.

What you wrote kinda reminds me of that old parable about the guy who allows himself to be convinced to carry his horse on his back.

[Peikko 1,575]

Knock knock

Who's there?

Illegal

Illegal who?

A legal is someone abiding by the law. An illegal doesn't.

How is it unconstitutional that someone who is illegal can never be against the law

or be in danger of being held accountable for illegal status?

You're smoking some real old leaves from the Constitution...

Times change and the needs of citizens change.

There is a need to protect the integrity of citizenship.

You think the police in AZ are now able to knock on the doors of any home and demand papers? Go to any business and ask for papers? Set up road blocks and ask for papers and arrest anyone who doesn't produce them? I see...