Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[pedroh 21]

I didn't say anything about "probable cause", but now that you mention it it isn't as clear cut as is being made out.

Does the officer ask everyone he stops/arrests for proof of legal status? If he does then he's adding a lot to his and the departments workload and red tape (at a time when a lot of people are concerned that the police are doing more paperwork and less actual policing). If he only asks that question of the people he suspects of being illegal (hispanic looking people, for example) it opens the police department up to accusations of institutional racism.

yup, the problem is not asking for ID.. is who they are asking to. I also see a very inefficient process if they want to ask everyone for ID, which makes me think they will target certain people, which in this case as you call it, it's institutional racism

[Ali G. 37]

it's easy to say being PC isn't going to solve problems, when you're not gonna be affected by it..

as Rob and Mel was saying. If you know the demographic history of the border states, Mexican heritage people have lived there for centuries, way before the US made Az part of them, there was never a 'speak english' plan to make everyone bilingual, there are literally hundreds of families that for generations have only spoken spanish, who live in towns that only speak spanish, and have mexican customs. Blame them? why? they arrived first, and they were never told to do otherwise. They would be the perfect targets for this law, in which probable cause becomes a bologna sandwich, and anyone having a bad day can abuse it

If some has been in the US for centuries and doesn't speak English, well then they are a dumbazz.

[PhiLandShiR 18]

A citizen is not required to carry any ID, except while driving as a licence to drive, not of citizenship status. Even then if you dont have it on you, you are likely not going to get arrested, but you might get cited. So you think its OK to arrest a Citzen for not providing an ID?

If the police are investigating a crime and are questioning you, and you refuse or can not provide an ID, yes, it would be their job to do just that.

[Ali G. 37]

Of course they do - anything is worth it to get those bloody illegals - even reducing civil liberties for those who 'look foreign' legally present in the US or not.

Dodge dodge dodge, it's all you guys do. Furthermore, make up imaginary extreme scenarios and pass it as fact and what is going to happen.

So do you have a problem with everyone being asked for their status then? Yes or No.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes what a human rights violation to ask some for status to use a government service or when they are arrested. Oh wait, it's the same ###### deal in your mother country. Even Aussies have to wait weeks on end to open up a bloody bank account there, ensuring status eligibility.

BY, some day you will learn that insulting my country is not the same as insulting me.

Human rights are/should be universal and they are entirely separate to citizens rights. They aren't/shouldn't be contingent on immigrant status. That sets a dubious precedent.

[pedroh 21]

If some has been in the US for centuries and doesn't speak English, well then they are a dumbazz.

the US never made an effort to 'educate' the newly acquired territories during the mexican-american wars, they were never told "people of town A, now we're part of the USA, so we have to speak english" why would they assume they had to do otherwise? even non-latino people born in those states, some of them are fully bilingual, they know the heritage of those states is mostly Mexican, even though it's part of the US

[The_Dude 1,142]

Rubbish. If he is pulled over with probably cause during the normal course of police work, as part of the process, a simple 5 second check will prove he is a citizen or resident.

It's utter disingenuous horseshit that he will be stopped at some imaginary check point and asked for his ID and status.

You are simply naive if you believe that, or just ignorant of the process. If someone is a suspect, and doesn't have any ID on them, they cannot verify their identity on the spot, they will have to be taken into custody and transported to the police station to be finger printed, or an alternate verification process.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

in many states they are required to carry at all times. again, if its the law & you choose not to carry it. it your dumbass fault. yes its OK.

Where? I can't think of a single state in the Union that requires me to carry my ID when walking around.

[PhiLandShiR 18]

I didn't say anything about "probable cause", but now that you mention it it isn't as clear cut as is being made out.

Does the officer ask everyone he stops/arrests for proof of legal status? If he does then he's adding a lot to his and the departments workload and red tape (at a time when a lot of people are concerned that the police are doing more paperwork and less actual policing). If he only asks that question of the people he suspects of being illegal (hispanic looking people, for example) it opens the police department up to accusations of institutional racism.

Does the police ask everyone they stop/arrest how fast they were going?? I bet its only those who are stopped for a speeding ticket!! Those racist Ba$tard$!!! I bet they don't ask the bank robber or the rapist that question!!

What questions are or are not asked, depends on what the crime is... no cop will ask the same questions no matter the reason for stopping.

Where? I can't think of a single state in the Union that requires me to carry my ID when walking around.

If you are not a citizen you better be carrying it!!!

[Ali G. 37]

BY, some day you will learn that insulting my country is not the same as insulting me.

Human rights are/should be universal and they are entirely separate to citizens rights. They aren't/shouldn't be contingent on immigrant status. That sets a dubious precedent.

How is pointing out what the UK does insulting? Evey single other first world country has the same deal. How is pointing this out an insult?

You seem to ignore the reality that the police have the right to ask this question in a large number of countries.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Does the police ask everyone they stop/arrest how fast they were going?? I bet its only those who are stopped for a speeding ticket!! Those racist Ba$tard$!!! I bet they don't ask the bank robber or the rapist that question!!

What questions are or are not asked, depends on what the crime is... no cop will ask the same questions no matter the reason for stopping.

If you are not a citizen you better be carrying it!!!

I am.

[Danno 1,228]

TEll you what..... we will handle this in the same way we were reassured about the Healthcare Bill.

We can fix it as we go along.

TEll you what..... we will handle this in the same way we were reassured about the Healthcare Bill.

We can fix it as we go along.

[sachinky 465]

I have a cousin from Spain, who has lived here for 10 years, however, his english is rather suspect. He is a citizen, but would be subject to this law if he were driving through Arizona. He is a U.S. citizen, but because of the way he looks, and his inferior language skills, would be subject to arrest. That is not a one in a million example.

SO WHAT? They'll ask him for his ID, he'll produce it and he'll go on his merry way. What is the BFD?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

TEll you what..... we will handle this in the same way we were reassured about the Healthcare Bill.

We can fix it as we go along.

TEll you what..... we will handle this in the same way we were reassured about the Healthcare Bill.

We can fix it as we go along.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Where? I can't think of a single state in the Union that requires me to carry my ID when walking around.

oklahoma, i'm sure there are more. arizona is soon. do some research