Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No, BY. The State government is grandstanding on this issue and what they are doing amounts to putting the cart before the horse.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

You are deeply conservative on this issue Paul, that's the only point I am making here.

BY is right about you, all you do is criticize without any backing or merritt on the discussion.

Do you hear me saying, 'we need to get rid of illegals no matter what, it's completely wrong on all levels'

No, my point is now on this that due to the negative economic impact, it's better for this nation to control its borders and get rid of those who have broken the law and are continuing the break the law by staying here illegally. Their impact is harming states like Arizona and people have been begging for help to stop it.

If our unemployment rate was low, if there was a budget surplus everywhere, if there could be an economic benefit without bloodsucking our system dry, then I would be all for the illegals coming in and doing a little bit of work here and there.

However, they shouldn't have to be "illegal." - they should be able to be migrant workers based on what we as a nation NEED. If we don't need them, we don't let them in and stop those who would try to enter illegally by any means necessary to secure our borders and our economic security as well.

[Heracles 417]

BY is right about you, all you do is criticize without any backing or merritt on the discussion.

Look at the creation date of this old account of mine. In close to five years, all I have ever heard from these two is criticism of any ideas and labels because I point out things, like the massive disparity in crime rates depending on demographic. They even hard the nerve to downplay the fact that over 50% of gang bangers are Hispanic; while they make up 12% of the population.

If you want to catch them out, just press them for details or their own ideas, since your own are apparently dumb. It's fun to see both Cleo and Pike crumble like feta cheese. You and I might disagree on things but at least both of us can explain and rationalize our ideas and point of view.

[natty bumppo 297]

Look at the creation date of this old account of mine. In close to five years, all I have ever heard from these two is criticism of any ideas and labels because I point out things, like the massive disparity in crime rates depending on demographic. They even hard the nerve to downplay the fact that over 50% of gang bangers are Hispanic; while they make up 12% of the population.

If you want to catch them out, just press them for details or their own ideas, since your own are apparently dumb. It's fun to see both Cleo and Pike crumble like feta cheese. You and I might disagree on things but at least both of us can explain and rationalize our ideas and point of view.

stop.making.sense

:bonk:

[Peikko 1,575]

Look at the creation date of this old account of mine. In close to five years, all I have ever heard from these two is criticism of any ideas and labels because I point out things, like the massive disparity in crime rates depending on demographic. They even hard the nerve to downplay the fact that over 50% of gang bangers are Hispanic; while they make up 12% of the population.

If you want to catch them out, just press them for details or their own ideas, since your own are apparently dumb. It's fun to see both Cleo and Pike crumble like feta cheese. You and I might disagree on things but at least both of us can explain and rationalize our ideas and point of view.

Next you will tell me that this law is all your own work, you keep coming up with those fabulous solutions BY. Yay!

Do you actually believe that posting on message boards has some intrinsic value beyond entertainment? How deluded can you get?

Edited April 27, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Heracles 417]

No, my point is now on this that due to the negative economic impact, it's better for this nation to control its borders and get rid of those who have broken the law and are continuing the break the law by staying here illegally. Their impact is harming states like Arizona and people have been begging for help to stop it.

If our unemployment rate was low, if there was a budget surplus everywhere, if there could be an economic benefit without bloodsucking our system dry, then I would be all for the illegals coming in and doing a little bit of work here and there.

However, they shouldn't have to be "illegal." - they should be able to be migrant workers based on what we as a nation NEED. If we don't need them, we don't let them in and stop those who would try to enter illegally by any means necessary to secure our borders and our economic security as well.

You are right on the money. This is not 2005 or 2006 when the money and work was overflowing, so we could turn a blind eye to the illegals. If anyone wants to talk about human rights, what about the 60,000,000 Americans living in poverty? Or should we just #### them and focus on Mexico's poor? Anyone seen the word Mexico in the constitution?

School budgets are in the red and states are bankrupt. That's all folks, the money has run out. So where should we cut back first? Every single service used by an illegal aliens. Heck, even in AUS of all places, apart from medical coverage, none legal qualifies for any government service during the first two years of being a PR. Free services for illegal aliens are not an option period. Yet, over here teachers are being fired for the majority while, schools are still forced to hire five or six ESOL teachers. Why would you need to hire ESOL teachers? Unless there was some sort of sudden influx of people from another country.

I have been told I cannot discriminate based on race or language. Yet to this day, I am still waiting for one of these guys to tell me what visa the massive flow of Latin Americans used to come into the United States. This is not AUS or Canada, as such, there is no blue-collar Visa period. So which visa what is?

Americans and America should decide the number of temp workers or immigrants they need rather than Mexico. You want another "human rights", allowing one region of the world with 8% of the population to dominate another country's immigration system - as in 80% of it. Apparently that is not racist or discriminatory but asking someone pulled over during normal police work to show status, is just murder.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

...but at least both of us can explain and rationalize our ideas and point of view.

Seriously BY. You, the guy who said that blacks and hispanics should be universally barred from owning or possessing a gun?

You who believes in the collective punishment of an entire group of people because of the actions of a few?

You have a talent for simplifying complex issues with boneheaded solutions. You believe in authoritarian government - and that if a person doesn't behave in a manner of which you approve that they should be beaten into submission (metaphorically and literally).

stop.making.sense

:bonk:

He doesn't make sense. And neither do you.

Whatever happened to:

"FROM NOW ON I WILL TREAT YOU WORSE THAN SH!T!!!"

Did you finally calm down?

[Heracles 417]

Next you will tell me that this law is all your own work, you keep coming up with those fabulous solutions BY. Yay!

Do you actually believe that posting on message boards has some intrinsic value beyond entertainment? How deluded can you get?

Cleo thanks for pointing out that this is visa journey rather than congress. However, some of us on here are interested in having a discussion. Proof of these people are those who can agree on one thing but disagree on another. One does have to wonder why certain people camp out in OT but have no legitimate interest in a discussion.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You are right on the money. This is not 2005 or 2006 when the money and work was overflowing, so we could turn a blind eye to the illegals. If anyone wants to talk about human rights, what about the 60,000,000 Americans living in poverty? Or should we just #### them and focus on Mexico's poor? Anyone seen the word Mexico in the constitution?

School budgets are in the red and states are bankrupt. That's all folks, the money has run out. So where should we cut back first? Every single service used by an illegal aliens. Heck, even in AUS of all places, apart from medical coverage, none legal qualifies for any government service during the first two years of being a PR. Free services for illegal aliens are not an option period. Yet, over here teachers are being fired for the majority while, schools are still forced to hire five or six ESOL teachers. Why would you need to hire ESOL teachers? Unless there was some sort of sudden influx of people from another country.

I have been told I cannot discriminate based on race or language. Yet to this day, I am still waiting for one of these guys to tell me what visa the massive flow of Latin Americans used to come into the United States. This is not AUS or Canada, as such, there is no blue-collar Visa period. So which visa what is?

Americans and America should decide the number of temp workers or immigrants they need rather than Mexico. You want another "human rights", allowing one region of the world with 8% of the population to dominate another country's immigration system - as in 80% of it. Apparently that is not racist or discriminatory but asking someone pulled over during normal police work to show status, is just murder.

You need to start thinking with your head and not your emotions.

Cleo thanks for pointing out that this is visa journey rather than congress. However, some of us on here are interested in having a discussion. Proof of these people are those who can agree on one thing but disagree on another. One does have to wonder why certain people camp out in OT but have no legitimate interest in a discussion.

Define "legitimate" BY.

Is it "legitimate" to accuse me of advocating illegal immigration, when I hold no such opinion - public or private?

[Peikko 1,575]

You are right on the money. This is not 2005 or 2006 when the money and work was overflowing, so we could turn a blind eye to the illegals. If anyone wants to talk about human rights, what about the 60,000,000 Americans living in poverty? Or should we just #### them and focus on Mexico's poor? Anyone seen the word Mexico in the constitution?

School budgets are in the red and states are bankrupt. That's all folks, the money has run out. So where should we cut back first? Every single service used by an illegal aliens. Heck, even in AUS of all places, apart from medical coverage, none legal qualifies for any government service during the first two years of being a PR. Free services for illegal aliens are not an option period. Yet, over here teachers are being fired for the majority while, schools are still forced to hire five or six ESOL teachers. Why would you need to hire ESOL teachers? Unless there was some sort of sudden influx of people from another country.

I have been told I cannot discriminate based on race or language. Yet to this day, I am still waiting for one of these guys to tell me what visa the massive flow of Latin Americans used to come into the United States. This is not AUS or Canada, as such, there is no blue-collar Visa period. So which visa what is?

Americans and America should decide the number of temp workers or immigrants they need rather than Mexico. You want another "human rights", allowing one region of the world with 8% of the population to dominate another country's immigration system - as in 80% of it. Apparently that is not racist or discriminatory but asking someone pulled over during normal police work to show status, is just murder.

It's not a question of turning blind eyes to illegals or not, it's producing good law to tackle problems or endorsing bad law just because you feel good about 'something being done'. I am not suprised to see you fall into this belief because you have a very simplistic view. You see high crime rates in inner city areas that are often heavily populated by black people and you conclude that black culture breeds criminals. You see border states with fiscal problems and you conclude that it's all the fault of illegal aliens, hispanic ones at that. You see unruly kids and you conclude that all parents are useless and corporal punishment will set everyone straight. Hilarious.

[Heracles 417]

Seriously BY. You, the guy who said that blacks and hispanics should be universally barred from owning or possessing a gun?

You who believes in the collective punishment of an entire group of people because of the actions of a few?

You have a talent for simplifying complex issues with boneheaded solutions. You believe in authoritarian government - and that if a person doesn't behave in a manner of which you approve that they should be beaten into submission (metaphorically and literally).

Thanks for proving my point. Now do what you do best with you have nothing legitimate to say and derail a discussion. Perhaps, you could bring up the Aborigines again and use them to make a point. Without a doubt, I know you are itching to do so.

What I still enjoy to this day is that the same legacy members still share 99.98% of similar of views with one another. Are you guys challenged or something? Surely you would have at least one differing opinion on a topic in over five years. That to me is a clear indication of someone driven by idealism rather than logic. You must own a platinum edition of Children of men and V for Vendetta.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If there's one phrase that adequately defines Booyah! It would be:

Heavy Handed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Thanks for proving my point. Now do what you do best with you have nothing legitimate to say and derail a discussion. Perhaps, you could bring up the Aborigines again and use them to make a point. Without a doubt, I know you are itching to do so.

What I still enjoy to this day is that the same legacy members still share 99.98% of similar of views with one another. Are you guys challenged or something? Surely you would have at least one differing opinion on topic in over five years. That to me is a clear indication of someone driven by idealism rather than logic. You must own a platinum edition of Children of men and V for Vendetta.

BY, you are the guy who acquired the nickname "wild tangent" for your scatter gun approach to thread topics. You couldn't maintain a train of thought for more than a couple of pages - what happened, did you finally get some medication for your ADD?

As I said BY, define legitimate. And here's a hint for you: It does not mean "it's what I say it is".

[Obama 2012 1,714]

It's not a question of turning blind eyes to illegals or not, it's producing good law to tackle problems or endorsing bad law just because you feel good about 'something being done'. I am not suprised to see you fall into this belief because you have a very simplistic view. You see high crime rates in inner city areas that are often heavily populated by black people and you conclude that black culture breeds criminals.

Actually, Africa would agree with this sentiment of his surprisingly enough.... There's far more to 'people' than just their skin color along the lines of genetics. This is not to say that everyone is like this, that's absurd to say this. It is pretty easy to assume that a certain group is more likely to be drawn to certain behavioral actions for whatever reason though...

You see border states with fiscal problems and you conclude that it's all the fault of illegal aliens, hispanic ones at that.

Ask those border town in Arizona, Texas, and California the ####### they have to deal with and where their money is going... You might be surprised...

You see unruly kids and you conclude that all parents are useless and corporal punishment will set everyone straight. Hilarious.

Little brats need to be beaten the hell out of. They're annoying and a lot of parents today are useless. It's not really their fault though, society is to blame for CPS overstepping and acting like dipshits now days.

[Heracles 417]

If there's one phrase that adequately defines Booyah! It would be:

Heavy Handed.

The difference between our debating or discussion styles is that if I disagree with someone else, I at least propose what I think is the better approach. I certainly don't spend the majority of time only criticizing the other person's opinion.

Neither Cleo nor yourself has actually said what you feel America should do to tackle this huge problem negatively affecting for the country. Cleo has touched a temp visa or amnesty but that is off-topic as we are referring to what should be done to rid the country of the illegals. Until people have better alternatives of their own, Arizona's and that used by NoVA should stand period. In this economy and financial state of the country, amnesty or temp work visa are not an option. Therefore, tell us what you proposes they do to send them back; without any possibility of discrimination.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!