Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[DukeOfYork 28]

Immigration is not a right it's a privilege.

That is the most succinctly put response I've seen in these 37 pages.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DukeOfYork

[Peikko 1,575]

The cons outweigh the benefits. "cheap labor" means nothing if you're paying for them in every other aspect as well along with their brats.

That's not the point - a libertarian does not allow for government mandates into his personal freedoms period. As to what the true economic costs and benefits would be from allowing unrestricted economic migration from South of the border, a true libertarian would suggest that the removal of all government restrictions on economic activity results in a more productive economy that benefits those who should benefit. In other words, you are not a libertarian Paul, you are just a confused conservative.

That is the most succinctly put response I've seen in these 37 pages.

It's also the most trite, but who's cares about content if it's succinct?

On the point of a government mandate to always carry ID, I am vehemently apposed to it - on that point I am more of a libertarian than most it would seem

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That's not the point - a libertarian does not allow for government mandates into his personal freedoms period. As to what the true economic costs and benefits would be from allowing unrestricted economic migration from South of the border, a true libertarian would suggest that the removal of all government restrictions on economic activity results in a more productive economy that benefits those who should benefit. In other words, you are not a libertarian Paul, you are just a confused conservative.

It's also the most trite, but who's cares about content if it's succinct?

Me conservative? HA! - Outside of fiscal responsibility/economic issues, I'm far from 'conservative'

[Peikko 1,575]

Me conservative? HA! - Outside of fiscal responsibility/economic issues, I'm far from 'conservative'

On this issue, you are as conservative as it's possible to get - and certainly no libertarian would advocate mandatory carrying of ID or restricting economic activity across borders.

[Heracles 417]

On the point of a government mandate to always carry ID, I am vehemently apposed to it - on that point I am more of a libertarian than most it would seem

Well tough titty. The United States needs to implement policies to deal with the situation they face in 2010. The state of Arizona has done exactly that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I get that citizens are not required to carry any ID under law. My point is: what if this law changes and you ARE required to carry a state-issued ID? What is the big deal? You already carry a D/L, you just carry your state ID along with it which will clearly state your citizenship status. Or if they start listing your status on the D/L. Choose whichever one you like.

This uniform ID is what's not happening in the country - there's no appetite for it. I couldn't care less if ID's and DL's would forthwith carry a notation as to the status of the holder but there's opposition to such requirement being universally imposed on the individual states. Interestingly, that opposition comes most strongly from the same part of the political spectrum that forced this nonsense legislation through in AZ. Can't have your cake and eat it, too, you know?

[Peikko 1,575]

Well tough titty. The United States needs to implement policies to deal with the situation they face in 2010. The state of Arizona has done exactly that.

A national identity card that must be carried by all inhabitants at all times will never get off the ground. The state of Arizona has pissed on its constituents and its police force, all to score some political points. That's not good law and that's not politics for the people.

[Heracles 417]

On this issue, you are as conservative as it's possible to get - and certainly no libertarian would advocate mandatory carrying of ID or restricting economic activity across borders.

Who care if he is Ronald McDonald? Perhaps Paul shows that he looks at the issue at hand rather than have the pike / Cleo-esque V for Vendetta or Children of Men paranoia.

One thing I will give him great credit for is that he can and does explain his views. Whereas, trying to get more than a few sentences out of you and Pike is harder to do than turning coal into diamonds. However, both of you have a knack for telling people how wrong they are; or bigoted, racist etc.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

On this issue, you are as conservative as it's possible to get - and certainly no libertarian would advocate mandatory carrying of ID or restricting economic activity across borders.

Honestly it depends on the effects to the nation by said economic activities.

I'm libertarian minded on a lot of things, but never claimed to be a full-blown libertarian on anything.

You find it easy just to 'classify' me without looking at it how I'm looking at it. It's not about conservative or liberal. If these were different times and there was a full blown positive effect from the illegals, then I'd be all for it. However, they do much more harm economically than good (especially in Arizona) and something needs to be done to uphold the laws already on the books.

[Peikko 1,575]

How many illegal aliens do you honestly believe will be deported as a direct result of the imposition of this statute? I'll bet it doesn't reach triple figures, let alone the half million we are supposed to believe this will flush out of the woodwork. What a joke.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think this might be a huge scam by Hillary to make us all pay for those damn passport cards

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's reality. Immigration is not a right it's a privilege. Apparently to the average Mexican, it has become their right to jump into the US. Many of us come from first world civilized countries and just like everyone else, have to have extensive background checks. Whereas, you actually advocate unknown individuals from a second to third world country, simple walk in and move about freely as they see fit - on the name of rights.

No, BY that is not my opinion and I have never advocated anything of the kind. Nor does that response have anything to do with my objection to this particular law.

Perhaps if you spend more time focusing on what I actually said and what you want to believe I said, we'd actually get somewhere and I wouldn't have to keep posting it over and over again in the hope that something will penetrate your thick neanderthal skull!

The fact is, had any other first world country had the same problem, they'd have things like a national card yesterday.

As I have told you, there is no love for a national ID card in the UK. You won't find too many people on board with it in Europe either.

They'd have amendments to ensure the police and their ICE equivalent had the legal authority to tackle employers to ensure they get them out. Whereas, the inept federal government here continues the forty year tradition of pandering to the few at the expense of the majority. About bloody time someone in this country stood up for the country and also stood up for the majority. Sure as hell how it works in every other civilized first world country.

This already takes place to some degree. The problem with it is much the same as the problem with this law - because there needs to be consensus agreement on some sort of national facility where employers can, in a timely manner that is practical, check people's information to see whether a person has authorisation to work in the US.

1. Protect your borders and people.

2. Look out for the interests of the majority rather than pandering to the few.

Example of point 1 is ICE equivalent authorities being able to inspect a business, much like a health and safety inspector - in AUS. No warrant needed.

Example of point 2 is numerous European countries banning the Burka.

The authorities can and do already investigate businesses and conduct raids.

I don't see how "Banning the Burka" looks after the interests of the majority. How is it in my interest to have certain pieces of clothing outlawed?

Edited April 27, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Peikko 1,575]

Honestly it depends on the effects to the nation by said economic activities.

I'm libertarian minded on a lot of things, but never claimed to be a full-blown libertarian on anything.

You find it easy just to 'classify' me without looking at it how I'm looking at it. It's not about conservative or liberal. If these were different times and there was a full blown positive effect from the illegals, then I'd be all for it. However, they do much more harm economically than good (especially in Arizona) and something needs to be done to uphold the laws already on the books.

You are deeply conservative on this issue Paul, that's the only point I am making here. As to the they do more harm than good. Honestly? How can you be so certain? That's a very strong statement to make on something that we have no accurate information on.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's also the most trite, but who's cares about content if it's succinct?

It has nothing to do with the OP article which specifically talks about USCs carrying extra pieces of identification out of fear that they may be mistaken for illegal aliens.

[Heracles 417]

A national identity card that must be carried by all inhabitants at all times will never get off the ground. The state of Arizona has pissed on its constituents and its police force, all to score some political points. That's not good law and that's not politics for the people.

Actually the state of Arizona has finally stood up for its residents. What you and others ignorant of the country forget is that we have the same deal in Northern Virginia, yet people are moving here daily. Guess who is nowhere to be found anymore? Illegal ###### aliens, as most now live in Maryland. Thankfully our local counties listened to the views of the majority of people and taxpayers, thus implemented the changes. It's been a good 2.5 years now. The other difference is that we have very affluent households in the area and would bankroll lawsuit against your ACLU.

25 highest-income counties by median household income (2009)

1. Loudoun County, Virginia

2. Fairfax County, Virginia

6. City of Fairfax, Virginia

9. Arlington County, Virginia

12. Stafford County, Virginia

14. Prince William County, Virginia

Edited April 27, 2010 by Booyah!