Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How about you come up with more hypothetical situations and I'll tell you what's acceptable to me or not.

In fact, I answered it before but here's it again. Say I'm stopped because I was speeding, asked for an ID, produce my GC, and the cops say NOT GOOD ENOUGH, you look like an illegal Mexican--you're coming to with us! Yes, THEN you can bet I'd probably start kicking and screaming. Because THAT would actually BE unfair since I had followed the law and carried my Green Card with me as mandated to do so by Federal law. Furthermore, there's no reason to believe that that wouldn't be a sufficient proof of ID.

The flaw of course is that since USCs are required only to carry a Driver License to verify identity in these situations and there is nothing on a State DL (in most states) to indicate the immigrant status of the person carrying it, an LPR could actually leave their GC at home and the issue of their immigrant status would never actually come up.

What I'm wondering re: this law is how this requirement to verify immigrant status affects the decision making process of individual cops. Now it could be that they pick up on someone's foreign accent and think that this might merit further scrutiny. Of course, they could be wrong as a good few foreign SOs on here are now naturalised USCs and have accents that don't sound exactly domestic. But again, the fact that a person has a Driver License, there is no way that the cops can reasonably (as the law suggests) verify their immigrant status past that. If you have a driver's license and a valid insurance and registration on your car they have to let you go on your merry way.

What I believe (and there is historical precedent for this - which I have mentioned several times in this thread) is that this kind of thing leads to the situation where law enforcement make the assumption (as many people do) that the majority of illegal immigrants are of one ethnicity (which isn't in itself untrue) and whether or not the law excludes the possibility of profiling, that this becomes inevitable.

[Deb+Steve 13]

How is having a conversation infringing your right to freedom of expression?

It is when you pick it apart ...

What angers me is those human rights that you're speaking about. The people in dire need will not be heard. The reform will not happen for those that need it most. An illegal ... I mean undocumented (mea culpa) ... worker is worth more than a refugee who had his hand amputated because he refused to pick up a gun.

It is already a crime to be in the country illegally. Are these laws in Arizona simply not enforcing what is already federal law in the US? Hell, if it were that simple wouldn't everyone this board simply pack their bags and go live with their SO? Because right about now I've had my share of human rights abuses from USCIS and NVC and my a$$ still hurts from the double gloving.

[sachinky 465]

Hell, if it were that simple wouldn't everyone this board simply pack their bags and go live with their SO? Because right about now I've had my share of human rights abuses from USCIS and NVC and my a$$ still hurts from the double gloving.

I hear you, sister.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It is when you pick it apart ...

Erm how does that work? You expressed yourself, you have posted in the thread numerous times. I haven't interfered with your ability to do that.

Nowhere is it written that a person's opinion cannot be challenged or discussed. If that were the case then life would be kinda boring wouldn't it - as all people would do is make arbitrary statements to the air.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I hear you, sister.

With all due respect, to date neither of you have any complaint of any real signifigance against either USCIS or DOS. From your timelines your cases appear to be processing normally.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What angers me is those human rights that you're speaking about. The people in dire need will not be heard. The reform will not happen for those that need it most. An illegal ... I mean undocumented (mea culpa) ... worker is worth more than a refugee who had his hand amputated because he refused to pick up a gun.

It is already a crime to be in the country illegally. Are these laws in Arizona simply not enforcing what is already federal law in the US? Hell, if it were that simple wouldn't everyone this board simply pack their bags and go live with their SO? Because right about now I've had my share of human rights abuses from USCIS and NVC and my a$$ still hurts from the double gloving.

The question I have (as I have said many many times) is whether the law can be effective (given that USCs aren't legally required to carry more than a State DL as proof of ID) and whether or not it puts the Arizona Police in a position where it allows for institutionalized racism.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[sachinky 465]

With all due respect, to date neither of you have any complaint of any real signifigance against either USCIS or DOS. From your timelines your cases appear to be processing normally.

Yeah, 9 months sounds like a totally reasonable frame of time to be away from your husband. Which other First World country has such ludicrous waiting periods? Australia? Canada? UK? Germany?

Let's talk some more about giving amnesty to those illegally present in the U.S. while nothing is done to speed up processing times for those waiting to rejoin their loved ones and families in the U.S. Who gives a ####### about the legal immigrants? Doesn't matter that they are the ones actually going about this through the proper channels, paying the fees, waiting out the processing period and jumping through every damned hoop set up by the U.S. government?

And given that this IS a free country, at least, the last time I checked, I'll complain however much I want. Aah, the beauty of freedom of expression! You won't be telling me if I have any significant reason to complain about or not.

Edited April 27, 2010 by sachinky

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Yeah, 9 months sounds like a totally reasonable frame of time to be away from your husband. Which other First World country has such ludicrous waiting periods? Australia? Canada? UK? Germany?

Let's talk some more about giving amnesty to those illegally present in the U.S. while nothing is done to speed up processing times for those waiting to rejoin their loved ones and families in the U.S. Who gives a ####### about the legal immigrants? Doesn't matter that they are the ones actually going about this through the proper channels, paying the fees, waiting out the processing period and jumping through every damned hoop set up by the U.S. government?

And given that this IS a free country, at least, the last time I checked, I'll complain however much I want. Aah, the beauty of freedom of expression! You won't be telling me if I have any significant reason to complain about or not.

You are processing for a CR1 and your times are not all that different from other nations.

Nevertheless, you are getting incredibly warm to one of the reasons this law bothers me. During your lifetime in the US, just how many times do you think you should have to prove who you are? After you have done the dance for the government, complied with all it's laws and paid all that money, it won't bother you to have to CONTINUALLY prove to other authorities that you are a legal alien?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Yeah, 9 months sounds like a totally reasonable frame of time to be away from your husband. Which other First World country has such ludicrous waiting periods? Australia? Canada? UK? Germany?

Let's talk some more about giving amnesty to those illegally present in the U.S. while nothing is done to speed up processing times for those waiting to rejoin their loved ones and families in the U.S. Who gives a ####### about the legal immigrants? Doesn't matter that they are the ones actually going about this through the proper channels, paying the fees, waiting out the processing period and jumping through every damned hoop set up by the U.S. government?

And given that this IS a free country, at least, the last time I checked, I'll complain however much I want. Aah, the beauty of freedom of expression! You won't be telling me if I have any significant reason to complain about or not.

I forgot to add that processing times are signifigantly better than they used to be. It may not feel like it to you as it's your personal process, but they have.

[CDAgirlMI 51]

How much of an inconvenience is it to show ID? How many seconds/minutes of your life would be wasted?

The way I look at it is this:

Like others mentioned, we had to go through the immigration microscope to prove our relationships were real. Spent thousands of dollars in filing fees & medical costs.

The illegals did none of this. They got a free ride in.

I always carry some proof that I'm here legally. If I was ever asked to show it wherever in the US I was, so what? I, personally don't have an issue with it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why wouldn't the GC be enough? It is all I'm required to carry under Federal law.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If anything at all, as a USC you'd carry a state issued ID because there's no requirement to carry any ID beyond that when moving about the US. So you're objecting to carrying anything beyond what's required by federal law as a resident but sit there and critizice citizens of this nation objecting to a documentary burden beyond any requirement on the books. Nice double standard there.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If anything at all, as a USC you'd carry a state issued ID because there's no requirement to carry any ID beyond that when moving about the US. So you're objecting to carrying anything beyond what's required by federal law as a resident but sit there and critizice citizens of this nation objecting to a documentary burden beyond any requirement on the books. Nice double standard there.

if residents have an arizona state id, the state most likely already has their status on record.

http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/viewPDF.asp?lngProductKey=1410&lngFormInfoKey=1410

nice try....no not really

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

if residents have an arizona state id, the state most likely already has their status on record.

http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/viewPDF.asp?lngProductKey=1410&lngFormInfoKey=1410

nice try....no not really

Oh, so the law does not apply to visiting US citizens from states that may not record the immigration / citizenship status for the purposes of issuing a state ID / DL?

Nice try... no, not really.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Oh, so the law does not apply to visiting US citizens from states that may not record the immigration / citizenship status for the purposes of issuing a state ID / DL?

Nice try... no, not really.

grab both ears & jump.

its a well known fact that arizona is doing this. i would think people planning on traveling to or driving thru arizona would be prepared.

yet another sad attempt. really

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bend over and grab your ankles, more like...