Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

How would such a law change that? Unless you commit a crime, it would not affect you in any manner.

People need to discuss the actual law rather than what they think the law means or will do.

This is regarding a national ID. I agree with you regarding the Arizona law.

[Ali G. 37]

All I hear is BS hypothetical scenarios here. Nothing actual addresses why the police should not be able to check the status of an individual they cite or arrest.

Though, I have also seen a lot of this:

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ali G.

[sachinky 465]

** YOUR GREENCARD. US CITIZENS DON'T HAVE A GREENCARD TO CARRY AROUND. IS THAT SO HARD TO CONSUME?

Firstly, I was responding to another poster who asked for MY reasons. So I stated them.

Also, I think you meant to use "grasp" there instead of "consume" -- yes?

I am quite aware that USCs don't have a GC to carry around. Carry around a photocopy of your passport instead? Or better yet, don't go to Arizona?

[Ali G. 37]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand, the law states that law enforcement CANNOT profile anyone and has been been carefully written in order to avoid any profiling. Only after a "witnessed crime" can they follow up and ask for identification and or immigration status, which, I'd imagine, is already common law enforcement procedure. They cannot simply stop someone and say "show me your green card" just for the heck of it -- which would indeed be profiling if it was based on race/ethnicity.

So stop making it sound like you'll be harassed if you're out for a job or on your way to pick up the groceries.

When people are solely running on idealism, they tend to ignore the actual facts. Apparently the police are going to ignore this, switch off their cameras, bypass the local magistrate and just arrest people randomly; yep every one of them. True story.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand, the law states that law enforcement CANNOT profile anyone and has been been carefully written in order to avoid any profiling. Only after a "witnessed crime" can they follow up and ask for identification and or immigration status, which, I'd imagine, is already common law enforcement procedure.

Okay, I'll correct you - no witnessing of any crime required. "Reasonable suspicion" during any lawful contact is all it takes. The question is, what exactly is "reasonable suspicion"? My accent? My apparent birth and upbringing as the citizen of another country? Is that reasonable enough?

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Firstly, I was responding to another poster who asked for MY reasons. So I stated them.

Also, I think you meant to use "grasp" there instead of "consume" -- yes?

I am quite aware that USCs don't have a GC to carry around. Carry around a photocopy of your passport instead? Or better yet, don't go to Arizona?

clearly you are not aware that USC's are not required to own a passport. All you need to travel internally within the US is a driver's license.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Also, I think you meant to use "grasp" there instead of "consume" -- yes?

No, I meant consume. Grasping would possibly follow the consumption. You need to do the latter before you can accomplish the former.

clearly you are not aware that USC's are not required to own a passport. All you need to travel internally within the US is a driver's license.

Yeah, but who gives a ** about US citizen's right to move freely within the nation?

Edited April 26, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Okay, I'll correct you - no witnessing of any crime required. "Reasonable suspicion" during any lawful contact is all it takes. The question is, what exactly is "reasonable suspicion"? My accent? My apparent birth and upbringing as the citizen of another country? Is that reasonable enough?

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

As I said, this is so vague that it not only allows for wide interpretation on the part of individual officers and precincts, but could very well introduce a bias into the decision making process that creates a condition for institutional racism.

If anyone is interested read up on the Brixton Riots and the Sus Laws.

[Ali G. 37]

How dare customs ask Americans to prove they are citizens.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

you said a few posts back that you wouldn't feel inconvenienced if you were asked to produce a document that wouldn't be required of a White person.

Why?

Again, your soooo hung-up on color! Why is that? Here is a Hispanic gentleman and if pulled over and couldnt prove he was here legally would be GONE! Color has nothing to do with it!

[john & jean 37]

so Az. will deport a USC back to their home state?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again, your soooo hung-up on color! Why is that? Here is a Hispanic gentleman and if pulled over and couldnt prove he was here legally would be GONE! Color has nothing to do with it!

There was a thread of conversation between myself and another poster, the point of which you have entirely missed.

If you are interested in what I was talking about read back a few posts. Otherwise ** off.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Again, your soooo hung-up on color! Why is that? Here is a Hispanic gentleman and if pulled over and couldnt prove he was here legally would be GONE! Color has nothing to do with it!

Actually no he would be cited if he broke a moving violation and then let go as soon as he signed his ticket.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Sousuke

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How dare customs ask Americans to prove they are citizens.

Customs? Try the TSA and Homeland Security. None of which are the local PD.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How dare customs ask Americans to prove they are citizens.

The only interactions I have with customs is when I return from overseas travel where I am required to carry a US passport to re-enter the US. No issue there. Any US citizen can - and many actually do - avoid any contact with customs by simply not leaving the US. Apples and oranges, buddy.