Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Dan J 277]

So asking for an identification document is now a human rights violation?

You can ask all you want. Arresting people for not providing ID is another story.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Guess again. He's the one who is falsely painting them as being the best thing since slice bread.

The majority of illegal aliens in America are Hispanics, as in over 80%. The majority of those most wanted by the FBI, as in committed a serious federal crime, are Hispanic. Over 50% of gang bangers are Hispanic. Beheadings and a range of other human atrocities are committed daily in Mexico yet we are expected to believe that only the good guys will come to America. Yeah, don't buy the horseshit. Gangs like MS13 have utterly destroyed neighborhoods in America and taken hundreds of American lives; Latino gangs made up of members from the last amnesty as well as illegal aliens.

Are there good honest illegal aliens? Of course. Americans should not have to end up collateral damage and be subjected to the odds of someone being a criminal. Also why all legal immigrants and even tourist are heavily screened before entering any other nation - including the UK. Considering the above reality, the US has every right to protect its citizens from criminals entering their country.

Yeah I've heard all of this before - you've used this rationale to suggest that all hispanics (even LPRs and USCs) should have diminished rights because some law of averages you've cooked up says that there's X% chance that they are illegal and Y% chance that they are involved in gang crime.

[pedroh 21]

So asking for an identification document is now a human rights violation?

No, asking for ID to CERTAIN people (which is what the law would cause) is a human rights violation

[PhiLandShiR 18]

Is it the law citizens must carry a passport?

No, that is the major difference between a citizen and a non citizen...

Our government requires a non citizen to carry their ID cards and present them on demand.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You can ask all you want. Arresting people for not providing ID is another story.

In another thread we determined that the arrest can only take place for a public offense.

[Dan J 277]

No, that is the major difference between a citizen and a non citizen...

Our government requires a non citizen to carry their ID cards and present them on demand.

Yes, but it goes back to the original issue, how can you tell that someone is an LPR or Citizen by just looking at them.

[sachinky 465]

Can you tell by looking at someone that he or she is a citizen, a permanent resident or illegal alien?

It it right to arrest a citizen for not producing documentation because you suspect they might be an illegal alien?

No, you can't tell by simply looking at someone but my guess is, out of those three, the citizen and the LPR will have no problem proving their status when called upon to do so simply by carrying a color photocopy of the biographic page of your passport or your Green Card or whatever valid visa you're on (F-1, B-2) etc. I still don't see the big deal. Yes, unfortunately, Hispanics and Asians might get called upon to produce ID more than a white, blond, blue-eyed chick would be asked to, but hey, that's how the cookie crumbles. If you wanna live there, you gotta follow the laws.

As for the illegal alien, if this law gets even one of them deported, then more power to it!

I was in the U.S. for four years on a F-1 student visa. I always kept a copy of the visa in my wallet. I am Indian, brown-skinned, could easily pass for a Mexican and have often been mistaken as one. I also plan to keep a copy of my Green Card in my wallet and will produce it when called upon to do so. It seems to me only illegals need to fear this law. If you're a legal alien or a citizen, there's no need to get your panties up in a bunch. Produce your ID, and you'll be on your way.

[Ali G. 37]

Yeah I've heard all of this before - you've used this rationale to suggest that all hispanics (even LPRs and USCs) should have diminished rights because some law of averages you've cooked up says that there's X% chance that they are illegal and Y% chance that they are involved in gang crime.

No I prefer the six mentality of do nothing because there is the chance that 1 legal Hispanic out of 10,000, already stopped for something else, might be detained and have to show further proof.

I guess in your eyes it's also discrimination for customs to screen those from countries that are a greater risk to the US further.

Is it discrimination then if the police ask everyone for their status? Best thing to implement is a state ID card with an individuals status. That way there will be no discrimination period, as everyone checked or trying to use a government service will be asked to produce it.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ali G.

[pedroh 21]

No, you can't tell by simply looking at someone but my guess is, out of those three, the citizen and the LPR will have no problem proving their status when called upon to do so simply by carrying a color photocopy of the biographic page of your passport or your Green Card or whatever valid visa you're on (F-1, B-2) etc. I still don't see the big deal. Yes, unfortunately, Hispanics and Asians might get called upon to produce ID more than a white, blond, blue-eyed chick would be asked to, but hey, that's how the cookie crumbles. If you wanna live there, you gotta follow the laws.

As for the illegal alien, if this law gets even one of them deported, then more power to it!

I was in the U.S. for four years on a F-1 student visa. I always kept a copy of the visa in my wallet. I am Indian, brown-skinned, could easily pass for a Mexican and have often been mistaken as one. I also plan to keep a copy of my Green Card in my wallet and will produce it when called upon to do so. It seems to me only illegals need to fear this law. If you're a legal alien or a citizen, there's no need to get your panties up in a bunch. Produce your ID, and you'll be on your way.

no, that's not how the cookie should crumble, people want you to think it's like that.. but assuming that is OK to do it against certain people, just goes against all the american ideals of freedom and equality.. why not just put a barcode on asians and latinos?

[PhiLandShiR 18]

Yes, but it goes back to the original issue, how can you tell that someone is an LPR or Citizen by just looking at them.

You know the difference because the LPR is required by federal law to present their papers. The Citizen does not. In this scenario the LPR is actually the most protected.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No I prefer the six mentality of do nothing because there is the chance the one legal Hispanic out of 10,000, already stopped for something else, might be detained.

I guess in your eyes it's also discrimination for customs to screen those from countries that are a greater risk to the US further.

Is it discrimination then if the police ask everyone for their status? Best thing to implement is a state ID card with an individuals status. That way there will be no discrimination period, as everyone checked or trying to use a government service will be asked to produce it.

The meat of the issue, BY, is how to enforce immigration law in a manner which is fair and which doesn't infringe the rights of law abiding citizens and lawful immigrants. But when you believe that the ends justify the means, fairness is the first casualty.

Really, it isn't that difficult to understand.

[Ali G. 37]

No, asking for ID to CERTAIN people (which is what the law would cause) is a human rights violation

Thank you Captain obvious but that is not what the law would cause, that is what you claim it will cause. It's quite simply really, as part of the usual questioning when someone commits a crime or the police have probably cause, this person is asked to produce id to verify status. If someone is hired or attempts to use a government service, they are also asked to produce ID to verify status.

PS Have you moved to Germany yet?

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ali G.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Is it the law citizens must carry a passport?

valid ID(government issued), of which you could not get (can not already in many states now)w/o proving valid status or citizenship.

no, that's not how the cookie should crumble, people want you to think it's like that.. but assuming that is OK to do it against certain people, just goes against all the american ideals of freedom and equality.. why not just put a barcode on asians and latinos?

my wife doesn't need a barcode, she is legal & has proper ID.

[Ali G. 37]

The meat of the issue, BY, is how to enforce immigration law in a manner which is fair and which doesn't infringe the rights of law abiding citizens and lawful immigrants. But when you believe that the ends justify the means, fairness is the first casualty.

Really, it isn't that difficult to understand.

America has a serious issue with illegal aliens, therefore, requires a drastic workable approach. Beating around the bush and using the 'but but but you will target innocent people' rhetoric has only worsened the problem. Evidently people in bordering states like AZ have had enough. Mexico drags illegals kicking and screaming out of their country yet these same people have an issue with a simple show me your status check.

[sachinky 465]

But these illegal aliens are NOT Americans and such those principles and rights don't apply to them, does it? They've broken the law and now you want to extend the privileges/rights of the same country's law they have so blatantly violated without any regard whatsoever?

What I think will happen is that if this law does get enforced, illegal aliens will start moving out of Arizona into the neighboring states and then those states will also enforce these strict draconian measures.

There's a reason things have gotten to this point and that is because illegal immigration is such a big problem in the U.S. and needs these drastic measures.

Being politically correct isn't going to solve real-world problems.

Edited April 26, 2010 by sachinky