Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[sachinky 465]

All right. You have no problem producing what is legally required of you, correct?

I have explained to you above what an employer may legally do in the US when hiring an LPR.

Say you are the LPR and you have just been hired for a job. You produce your state issued driver's license and your unrestricted Social Security card as a means of proving your identity and your work authorization.

But your employer still asks you for your green card?

Is this discrimination?

Well, from what you just said, it's illegal for the employer to demand to see my greencard BECAUSE it is discriminatory.

Whether I choose to show him my greencard or I threaten to sue his butt for discrimination will probably depend on how I'm feeling that day or how badly I want that job.

[sachinky 465]

If you aren't prepared to stand up for your right for equal treatment, then you have no self-respect and deserve what you get (not unlike the people that moan about government but then don't bother to vote).

While you sit in your armchair, campaign for the downtrodden's rights and save the world. Good luck with that.

Edited April 26, 2010 by sachinky

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Well, from what you just said, it's illegal for the employer to demand to see my greencard BECAUSE it is discriminatory.

Whether I choose to show him my greencard or I threaten to sue his butt for discrimination will probably depend on how I'm feeling that day or how badly I want that job.

So how do you feel about the fact they didn't ask the white girl who got hired for any other documents besides her driver's license and Social Security card?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

While you sit in your armchair, campaign for the downtrodden's rights and save the world. Good luck with that.

At the end of the day, its your problem, not mine.

Who will stand up for your rights if you won't stand up for yourself?

[_Simpson_ 250]

We can go around the houses with hypothetical situations, the reality is that it will always come down to what you personally want to believe. You will convince yourself, but that's about it and the entire exercise becomes utterly pointless.

I might suggest to you that you look at this from the point of view of historical precedent.

This is something that has been tried before, and it didn't end well.

We wouldn't have to go around in circles if you would just address the underlining issues you have. You dont trust our cops and you believe this would be abused on a grand scale. So your problem should be with the cops and the screening process that comes with hiring a cop.

Take something as simple as loitering, you probably believe that a white man loitering outside a mini-mart would more likely be overlooked than a black man. Do you take issue with loitering laws?

Edited April 26, 2010 by _Simpson_

[sachinky 465]

So how do you feel about the fact they didn't ask the white girl who got hired for any other documents besides her driver's license and Social Security card?

This has a lot to do with culture and where you come from, I think. When you come from a Third World country where you've seen real poverty and fight for survival on a day to day basis, fancy words like the "Fourth Amendment" or "the freedom of expression" doesn't mean much.

In your given example, I feel nothing. Because to me it is probably more important to get the job since I'm poor and broke and need to pay the bills rather than be offended that I had to produce one more document than the white chick. Life's too short to get hot and bothered at every (imagined or not) slight.

This reminds me of those girls in politics class. "How can we help them?" As if the problems of the entire world have been burdened on her pretty white shoulders.

Edited April 26, 2010 by sachinky

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

This has a lot to do with culture and where you come from, I think. When you come from a Third World country where you've seen real poverty and fight for survival on a day to day basis, fancy words like the "Fourth Amendment" or "the freedom of expression" doesn't mean much.

In your given example, I feel nothing. Because to me it is probably more important to get the job since I'm poor and broke and need to pay the bills rather than be offended that I had to produce one more document than the white chick. Life's too short to get hot and bothered at every (imagined or not) slight.

This reminds me of those girls in politics class. "How can we help them?" As if the problems of the entire world have been burdened on her pretty white shoulders.

Fancy words like those in the "Fourth Amendment" are one reason the US is not a third world country.

And if you are going to live in such a country where you have been given rights to stop the oppression you say you have seen, you should really learn to appreciate the value of them.

[sachinky 465]

At the end of the day, its your problem, not mine.

Who will stand up for your rights if you won't stand up for yourself?

No one needs to stand up for my rights. I'm fully capable of doing so on my own IF I believe my rights are truly being violated. In this case, the proposed AZ law, I'm still not convinced any rights are being violated.

Edited April 26, 2010 by sachinky

[Ali G. 37]

I am a white US citizen. I run a red light. I get a ticket.

Does the officer normally want me to prove my citizenship?

Cannot have it both ways. If the authorities cannot target the group that constitutes 80% of illegal aliens, then they will have to ask and inconvenience everyone.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Cannot have it both ways. If the authorities cannot target the group that constitutes 80% of illegal aliens, then they will have to ask and inconvenience everyone.

Exactly why the law is flawed. Most USC's carry no proof of their citizenship.

Should all residents of Arizona now be advised to carry a US passport or passport card?

[Ali G. 37]

So how do you feel about the fact they didn't ask the white girl who got hired for any other documents besides her driver's license and Social Security card?

Common sense dictates that anyone with an accent or who does not speak a word of English most likely was not born in the US, thus should warrant a simple check. The they are only going to target brown people is idiotic horeshit made by those who have no legitimate argument.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Common sense dictates that anyone with an accent or who does not speak a word of English most likely was not born in the US, thus should warrant a simple check. The they are only going to target brown people is idiotic horeshit made by those who have no legitimate argument.

That is why we have E-Verify. It checks all God's children. Red or yellow, black or white.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Karl Manheim of Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and Erwin Chemerinsky of UC Irvine Law have stated this law is DOA. It's unconstitutional.

The Arizona law appears to be “facially unconstitutional,” Manheim said. “States have no power to pass immigration laws because it’s an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can’t have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can’t have their own immigration laws either.”

States have long attempted to regulate immigration and in some instances the federal government successfully challenged state laws in court, including in the 1800s, Manheim said.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/23/law-profs-on-arizona-immigration-bill-its-unconstitutional/tab/article/

[Ali G. 37]

Exactly why the law is flawed. Most USC's carry no proof of their citizenship.

Should all residents of Arizona now be advised to carry a US passport or passport card?

Well about time things change. Being that illegal aliens are such a huge problem, it's about time for a biometric SSC and or a drivers license that clearly illustrates a persons status. E-Verify should be mandatory with every job. After all, people hiring illegal aliens is why they are here in the first place.

Doing nothing because you assume Hispanics will be targeted is not an option.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

My God, why the big argument? It is so simple.

1. Institute a national ID card. Don't give me the "this will turn us to a "papers please" type of police state. We all have government issue ID's already. What is one more?

2. Make it a law that everyone carries it.

3. Deport anyone that doesn't have one.

Problem solved.