Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[mawilson 2,133]

There is only one industry that illegals hold jobs that americans covent, construction. Do you really think that americans would pick produce for minimum wage and no benefits? Unemployment benefits pay more, as does working at taco bell.

The market would determine the price, and yes, Americans would pick produce for what the market considers a fair wage.

Illegals change the rules of the game by willing to work for less.

[Ali G. 37]

Your second paragraph I will ignore because it's stupid to relate one thing to another. As to the first, well, it's a complicated situation. The current situation is dependent on factors, some of which are known but many of which are unknowable, so the direct impact on the US economy on allowing migrant workers a legal path to compete with USC's for jobs that they currently undertake because USC's are refusing to do them is also not a precisely predictable one. It could be that ensuring that these jobs would be worked at a minimum wage rate will move these jobs out of the US. It could be that having these jobs worked at minimum wage would provide jobs for both legal migrants and USC's, or only USC's or only legal migrants. To simply suggest that the situation will be made worse is ignorant.

Actually it's not stupid at all. Like Steven, you refuse to carry out simple mathematics of your own and look at something. For example, Steven claiming they will pay fines, even when a majority of them cannot even afford to pay their child's $2 lunch. Doesn't take a CPA to put two and two together.

You still don't get it do you. Once these guys are legalized, the employers will simply hire a new wave of illegal aliens, as they did since the last amnesty. That is not merely opinion or hearsay it's bloody reality.

If it has no impact on the economy, then why did countries like Australia halve their legal immigrant quota after the crises started? I wonder how doing so worked out for them? Oh wait, they weathered the bloody global financial storm with a 5% unemployment rate. Furthermore, by the IMF's own admission, will lead the pack post crisis.

Forcing 20,000,000 illegal aliens to leave will save the US taxpayer billions in services they currently use. Furthermore, it will free up positions currently occupied by them for Americans. It's quite evident that doing so if of no interest to you. Much like your type destroyed the UK labor market pursuing some sort of save the world crusade, you want to do the same here. Naturally, its probably safe to assume you are in a job that is affected by these people.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Again, so WHAT? If these legal Hispanics are USCs, they'll carry a photocopy of their US passport and will produce it when required.

You guys are making this sound like a bigger deal than the Second Coming of Christ.

You're missing the point, again. It is not required by any citizen of this country to carry ID, oustide of a few instances that require it to show licensing. It's a slippery slope you tread on when you start making different rules for different groups of people.

[sachinky 465]

There have always been different rules for citizens and non-citizens.

[SMOKE 1,426]

The question is why they should have to.

oh maybe because the federal gov't hasn't enforced immigration laws for so long that, illegal immigrants have forced arizona to adopt this law to protect its self & their citizens.

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually it's not stupid at all. Like Steven, you refuse to carry out simple mathematics of your own and look at something. For example, Steven claiming they will pay fines, even when a majority of them cannot even afford to pay their child's $2 lunch. Doesn't take a CPA to put two and two together.

You still don't get it do you. Once these guys are legalized, the employers will simply hire a new wave of illegal aliens, as they did since the last amnesty. That is not merely opinion or hearsay it's bloody reality.

If it has no impact on the economy, then why did countries like Australia halve their legal immigrant quota after the crises started? I wonder how doing so worked out for them? Oh wait, they weathered the bloody global financial storm with a 5% unemployment rate. Furthermore, by the IMF's own admission, will lead the pack post crisis.

Forcing 20,000,000 illegal aliens to leave will save the US taxpayer billions in services they currently use. Furthermore, it will free up positions currently occupied by them for Americans. It's quite evident that doing so if of no interest to you. Much like your type destroyed the UK labor market pursuing some sort of save the world crusade, you want to do the same here. Naturally, its probably safe to assume you are in a job that is affected by these people.

Yes, it's safe for you to assume any number or ridiculous propositions, you do it all the time so why would making assumptions about the type of job I do, and whether or not my job would be in jeopardy by 'these people' be any different?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

oh maybe because the federal gov't hasn't enforced immigration laws for so long that, illegal immigrants have forced arizona to adopt this law to protect its self & their citizens.

You think that justifies making rules that discriminate along ethnic/racial lines?

[sachinky 465]

I get what you're saying, but I still don't think this as big of a deal as you're all making it out to be.

You didn't have to carry an ID before, now you have to. Get with the program. Blame the illegal immigrants that have pushed the matter to such a point where USCs are so massively inconvencienced by having to carry around a small piece of paper in their wallets.

Edited April 26, 2010 by sachinky

[SMOKE 1,426]

You're missing the point, again. It is not required by any citizen of this country to carry ID, oustide of a few instances that require it to show licensing. It's a slippery slope you tread on when you start making different rules for different groups of people.

again you are reaching for a reason to b!tch. EVERYONE must show proof of status in arizona.

You think that justifies making rules that discriminate along ethnic/racial lines?

not your opinion. but where in the law is that stated?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I get what you're saying, but I still don't think this as big of a deal as you're all making it out to be.

Because you wouldn't be subject to discrimination...

Seriously, how hard is it to put yourself in another person's shoes?

[Ali G. 37]

The market would determine the price, and yes, Americans would pick produce for what the market considers a fair wage.

Illegals change the rules of the game by willing to work for less.

Exactly. Had there been no illegals, minimum wage would set the baseline and the market would most likely be forced to pay more; in order for people to do the work. This is not hearsay either as countries with a limited labor pool - like Canada and Australia - being a real life example of this in action.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I get what you're saying, but I still don't think this as big of a deal as you're all making it out to be.

You didn't have to carry an ID before, now you have to. Get with the program. Blame the illegal immigrants that have pushed the matter to such a point where USCs are so massively inconvencienced by having to carry around a small piece of paper in their wallets.

While admit it starts a bad precedent, this law won't be inconveniencing anyone who isn't already in serious trouble to begin with.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

not your opinion. but where in the law is that stated?

It doesn't have to be stated explicitly if the practical application of the law would inevitably have that result.

[SMOKE 1,426]

It doesn't have to be stated explicitly if the practical application of the law would inevitably have that result.

oh yah i forgot 'whitey bad''whitey cheat''whitey this & that'

[_Simpson_ 250]

You're missing the point, again. It is not required by any citizen of this country to carry ID, oustide of a few instances that require it to show licensing. It's a slippery slope you tread on when you start making different rules for different groups of people.

Having different rules for criminals and law abiding citizens seems very reasonable to me. Those are the only two groups this bill refers too.

Its this sort of resistance over trivial things like this bill that will hamper our progress on trying to fix the immigration problem we have here in the USA. Certain people in our society pick apart every solution one offers and I believe at the heart of it they believe we should have open boarders, they see it as just people coming here to get a cup of living. I wish these people would just be honest about that instead of acting like this bill was written by Satan himself as he was pis5ing all over our constitution.