Arizonans and The Nation Torn On Immigration Bill

[Ali G. 37]

Legal migrants in the UK do not get deported for speeding or jay walking - nor for that matter do illegal ones.

Knowing numerous people that have actually migrated to the UK from outside the EU, it's not some walk in the park. Not even for someone from a country that is still part of the Commonwealth. The UK also has some extremely tough on-the-spot fines for anyone hiring illegals, yet you expect me to believe that had an officer cited and illegal alien, they would simply let them be on their bike.

You are buying into some very interesting hyperbole BY and making some spurious and illogical jumps in logic to reach unrelated conclusions.

Actually, I read a study a while back, which discussed the negative affect open-border immigration has had on blue-collar salaries in the UK.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

You think that's funny? Getting hit by a car going 35 isn't nearly so deadly as getting hit by one going 65. Most pedestrian and cycle fatalities and serious injuries are caused by speeding motorists, not by law abiding ones. I don't think that's funny at all. The laws make sense, the fining system? I have no idea if that's the most efficient method of trying to keep people from breaking sensible laws or not.

I always wondered why your thinking process was so fvckered up.

[PhiLandShiR 18]

So, if your wife gets caught running a red light she should be deported? What about legal citizens who run red lights? Should they be deported too?

What better incentive could one have to obey the laws, drive safely and to become a citizen??

A legal citizen would already be deported they are already here....

Edited April 26, 2010 by PhiLandShiR

[sachinky 465]

I'm still waiting to hear how asking for an ID constitutes a human rights violation on any level.

[Peikko 1,575]

Knowing numerous people that have actually migrated to the UK from outside the EU, it's not some walk in the park. Not even for someone from a country that is still part of the Commonwealth. The UK also has some extremely tough on-the-spot fines for anyone hiring illegals, yet you expect me to believe that had an officer cited and illegal alien, they would simply let them be on their bike.

Actually, I read a study a while back, which discussed the negative affect open-border immigration has had on blue-collar salaries in the UK.

I didn't say that. I said that no one is deported for jay walking or speeding.

I am sure you read a study BY, and I am sure it said some interesting things, but what you can't do is use one study to support a hyperbolic conclusion about the UK as a whole, and it's place in the global economy.

What better incentive could one have to obey the laws, drive safely and to become a citizen??

A legal citizen would already be deported they are already here....

?

Do I have this right, you think it's completely outrageous for cities to fine motorists who break traffic laws because these laws are simply a means for cities to create income and serve no useful purpose, but you think irrelevant and ridiculous laws should be used as a 'test' for LPR's to see if they are worthy of US citizenship?

Priceless

Edited April 26, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I'm still waiting to hear how asking for an ID constitutes a human rights violation on any level.

You wont! You will hear its racist.

[Kevin and 10]

I'm still waiting to hear how asking for an ID constitutes a human rights violation on any level.

It doesn't. Stopping someone for no reason other than to ID them is the problem.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It doesn't. Stopping someone for no reason other than to ID them is the problem.

There is a reason! To find out if your here legally or not.

[Kevin and 10]

Is this a trick question? No, why would I?

You carry your driver's license when you're driving your car, right? And presumably, it's in your wallet at all times, yes?

Just make a photocopy of whatever ID you have to prove your citizenship/LPR status, put it next to your Driver's License and voila, problem solved! Don't get your knickers in a bunch for nothing.

You don't get stopped not having you DL or having an ID. You first must violate a law or a statute to induce probably cause.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm still waiting to hear how asking for an ID constitutes a human rights violation on any level.

If you accept as a given that most illegal immigrants are of Central/South American origin (which is a fair conclusion based on the available statistics) then you have to accept that having a government employee actively profiling people on the basis of race to investigate and potentially arrest people for not being able to present ID to prove resident/citizenship status is potentially setting a match to a potentially explosive situation.

If people can't be convinced that the law can be implemented in a manner that is practical for the police officers to pursue and which negates the possibility of individual officers and precincts just adopting an unspoken policy by which hispanics/latinos are targeted for this treatment as a matter of course, then it has the potential to create more problems than it solves.

What everyone here is ignoring is that there is a public relations element to policing, and pissing off entire neighborhoods does not make for an environment where the public is inclined to put its trust in the police.

[Ali G. 37]

I am sure you read a study BY, and I am sure it said some interesting things, but what you can't do is use one study to support a hyperbolic conclusion about the UK as a whole, and it's place in the global economy.

Come on, you are starting to sound like Steven here who refuses to put numbers on paper. Adding more unskilled labor to a market already suffering from chronic unemployment will worsen the situation. A temp work visa is a great idea, but only after the market picks up again. The thought that making millions of illegals legal will improve America's situation is at the very least ignorance; at the worst case, sheer lunacy.

It's like suggesting the best way to get out of debt is to borrow even more. NO, the best way is to cut back spending, generate more income and pay more debt off. Which in economic terms translates into: get rid of illegal aliens, allow Americans to get these jobs back and ensure they be paid a legitimate wage. Mexico's poor is Mexico's problem - not the United States. The US has its own problems, like the 12,000,000 Californians living in poverty or the states Detroit like unemployment rate.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ali G.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

If you accept as a given that most illegal immigrants are of Central/South American origin (which is a fair conclusion based on the available statistics) then you have to accept that having a government employee actively profiling people on the basis of race to investigate and potentially arrest people for not being able to present ID to prove resident/citizenship status is potentially setting a match to a potentially explosive situation.

If people can't be convinced that the law can be implemented in a manner that is practical for the police officers to pursue and which negates the possibility of individual officers and precincts just adopting an unspoken policy by which hispanics/latinos are targeted for this treatment as a matter of course, then it has the potential to create more problems than it solves.

What everyone here is ignoring is that there is a public relations element to policing, and pissing off entire neighborhoods does not make for an environment where the public is inclined to put its trust in the police.

So if there is a neighborhood full of bank robbers we should leave them alone as we wouldnt wanna piss them off.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Col. Lingus

[Ali G. 37]

What everyone here is ignoring is that there is a public relations element to policing, and pissing off entire neighborhoods does not make for an environment where the public is inclined to put its trust in the police.

Ah Pike, still with your head in the sand. Their neighborhoods are already shitholes due to rampant crime and gangs. Not to mention, the sheer number of illegals still entering as we speak.

What about walking all over Americans and crapping on their sovereign nation for your own self gain?

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ali G.

[sachinky 465]

Well, at an airport, it is fair to assume that a 25 year-old Middle-Eastern looking man would be checked more thoroughly than a blonde Swedish grandmother. Is it fair? Of course not. Is it a reflection of the world we live in today? I'd say so.

At some points you just have to play the odds.

Yeah, there may be a lot of legal Hispanics in the U.S. but there are also a lot of ILLEGAL Hispanics living and working in the U.S. as well.

I'm sure it would be no massive inconvenience for legal Hispanics to carry an ID around in their wallet and produce it when asked to do so.

As for the illegals, you won't find me giving a damn.

Edited April 26, 2010 by sachinky

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Personally, I think this law is the work of a grandstanding politician who wants to be seen to be doing something to tackle illegal immigration and isn't so much concerned with the practicality of what it will do to the workload of the police or how the police will actually implement the policy.

To make something like this work it needs to be addressed at the Federal level and you probably would need some sort of national ID that includes information on immigrant/citizenship status - but that still doesn't address the point that someone has to actually enforce the law in a fair manner without being seen to be indulging in racial profiling.